Red Devils actually get longer than Midas. Midas cichlids are just taller and thicker
A. Labiatus male in heat.
- Thread starter Captain F Bomb
- Start date
Red Devils actually get longer than Midas. Midas cichlids are just taller and thicker
There's not a *lot* of difference, really. If it even is an RD, not a hybrid (like mine is, I just refer to him as a midas).
But hey, that tells me absolutely everything I need to know about you.
But hey, that tells me absolutely everything I need to know about you.
IIRC true labiatus should only get a max of like 13-14, while citrinellum can get 16. Midas are definitely bigger when their height is also factored in.
It's a true RD, bred from wild caught parents. A pure blood, not a mud blood like yours. And it tells you that I'm right and he'll be fine in a 75. He's only about 5 or 6 inches now. If he's getting weird big I will upgrade him, just for you.
From the very beginning of this thread you've been very defensive, I understand if having a "pure" red devil is important to you but it's EXTREMELY unlikely to be the case without provenance to confirm it. A lot of the time these F1s are farm bred and raised further increasing the chance that other genetics have been included regardless of what they are sold as. Even reputable sellers are unable to guarantee what they are selling is 100% the claimed species with species that have overlapping variance well within their norm. I can appreciate that being told what you have isn't good/big enough could be frustrating but from my perspective this started because of the original information you provided (not knowing the behaviour these fish will exhibit). You will always find the minimum requirements to be a sore topic for many people as opinions and beliefs are what govern this.
Getting back on topic yes a large portion of time is spent digging, cleaning and patrolling. It's normal and usually only changes when something is wrong.
Getting back on topic yes a large portion of time is spent digging, cleaning and patrolling. It's normal and usually only changes when something is wrong.
huh, I didn’t know that. All the Midas I’ve seen usually get to 12. I know some people that have Labiatus at 13, maybe even 14. I guess they just take longer to top out than RDs, considering when they hit around 10 they just start to thicken and get taller
Thanks for the info
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Ofc, any time.
Not sure what you mean by "reputable sellers are unable to guarantee what they're selling", buying from people like Kevin at tuic, Dave at COTA or Ken Davis will provide you with true red devils. Labiatus is endemic to two lakes, and shared said lakes with various other amphilophus. Namely citrinellum type species. I say citrinellum type species because while actual citrinellum occurs alongside "labiatus" in lake Nicaragua, the Managua "midas" were recently found to be genetically distinct, and the name "amphilophus managuensis" is probably going to start popping up soon. This is besides the point though.
Unlike the midevils of Florida, which are likely only hybrids because they are descended from a time when people didn't care about locality or purity, closely related fish, especially amphilophus, seem to do a good job of not frequently crossing enough for it to become a problem for collectors. The "science" behind that being the fact that they fill different niches and don't usually interact enough to run into eachother and reproduce.
I believe there are only one or two true labiatus locales in the hobby right now, the weird "yaxha" ones, which I believe are actually from lake Managua, and the Isla zapatera ones, which are from lake Nicaragua. The sources I mentioned before all carry the zapateras. They seem to be the locale that's popular right now, I've even seen them pop up at wetspot. At the very least those are what people look for in red devils, and all those sources actively work to keep them from losing their big lips to captive breeding.
I haven't imported from any of those a few years to the point where they aren't the peoples names I am familiar with (Ken being the exception) and what you say is true if nothing has changed but they are a very small minority especially when you aren't living in America. Unless the fish are actually being bred in a sellers own facility it's more difficult to say without a doubt that there hasn't been even a single occurrence of hybridisation. My point was without naming the farms mistakes happen and for many of them they do not care whether the integrity of a species is protected. Selling 30-60 "labiatus" as a quarter box is far more important. There have been countless times I have ordered from suppliers only for a different species to arrive in place of what was shown on the availability list and on the proforma.
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Oh yeah the wholesale farm red devils you get at PetSmart or something, or anywhere that isn't within two countries of Germany, are likely crosses cranked out for people who want a "red devil" and don't care about the traits of true labiatus. My point was that true labiatus are relatively readily available, at least in the US. Not sure where the OP got his though, I skimmed through the thread to this point.
I know, and I get it. But it's annoying, it always comes back to tank size. I simply asked if hes gonna dig the whole time and surprise, i get tank size advice. Over the years it seems like tank size with one fish keeps getting bigger and bigger.
