can i raise a frontosa in high ph water(7.6) with low gh and kh(2-50

[jagsandpits]

can i raise a frontosa in high ph water(7.6) with low gh and kh(2-50

is it safe to do that or does the fish need the mineral from high gh and kh water, is ph the big issue or does ghkh come in big?

i meant 2-5 gh/kh not 2 to 50

 

[Ash]

You want a high PH. If the fish are tank raised then 7.6pH is not a huge issue. If they are wild caught you would want to look at a higher pH. My pH sits around 7.6-7.8 but I have really hard water. Generally a pH of 8+ is better. If they are wild caught they may be more sensitive. gh is the general hardness and kh is the carbonate harndess. You want the water hard, which ever one is lower would be your focus or issue. 12-14dGH should be fine. gh/kh should be fine reading 12-18 in range...

 

[jagsandpits]

the issue is gh kh its like 3 or 5

 

[Ash]

I understand that so that means you need to raise them to higher numbers to be in the range stated above. You can use baking soda to do this. I believe you can do 1 teaspoon/5gallons but you can double check it by googling it and/or test it out in a bucket or spare tank with no fish first to see what effect it has on your water and how much you may need.

 

[duanes]

I would not consider a pH of 7.6 high, that is just slightly above neutral, about the same as my tap water. The pH in Lake Tanganyika is around 9. If it were me, I would (and do) use aragonite as a substrate, it does a terrific job of buffering. Or if you do not like the look, bags of it can be hung in filters, sumps or fluidized bed reactors. This is a much more stable method for maintaining buffering capacity than the use of chemicals.

 

[Caperguy99]

I would not consider a pH of 7.6 high, that is just slightly above neutral, about the same as my tap water. The pH in Lake Tanganyika is around 9. If it were me, I would (and do) use aragonite as a substrate, it does a terrific job of buffering. Or if you do not like the look, bags of it can be hung in filters, sumps or fluidized bed reactors. This is a much more stable method for maintaining buffering capacity than the use of chemicals.

Duane, I’m in the same situation as this poster - my water naturally sits at 7.6 and I’m trying to decide on a substrate. Aragonite or the African Cichlid mix from caribsea seems to be the recommendation to get a little higher PH - but I’m wondering how water changes will go.

When I do my water changes, wouldn’t adding in 7.6 PH water to a tank that is being buffered by the substrate up to 8.2 cause ph fluctuations each time? In that case, would it be better just to use a regular substrate and get the fish acclimated to the natural PH of my water?

Having never kept African cichlids before, I’m trying to get all the information I can before setting up so that I’m not running around putting out fires. Especially if I go for gibberosa, which are more expensive and I know I’ll be stressed if I run into problems.

 

[duanes]

I don't think you'll have problems with pH between 7.6 and 8.2.
A buffering substrate of either type substrate with bring the tank water to its normal equilibrium gradually.
If concerned, adding a little baking soda to tap water during water changes may temporarily boost pH up a bit.
Because all tap water is different there isn't any 1 dosage that fits all, you might want to experiment with baking soda amounts, using 1 gallon and testing what (or if) pH changes per tsp, or Tbsp amounts,

 

[ken31cay]

Duane, I’m in the same situation as this poster - my water naturally sits at 7.6 and I’m trying to decide on a substrate. Aragonite or the African Cichlid mix from caribsea seems to be the recommendation to get a little higher PH - but I’m wondering how water changes will go.

When I do my water changes, wouldn’t adding in 7.6 PH water to a tank that is being buffered by the substrate up to 8.2 cause ph fluctuations each time? In that case, would it be better just to use a regular substrate and get the fish acclimated to the natural PH of my water?

Having never kept African cichlids before, I’m trying to get all the information I can before setting up so that I’m not running around putting out fires. Especially if I go for gibberosa, which are more expensive and I know I’ll be stressed if I run into problems.

If you are getting wild caught Frontosa then I would do what duanes recommended and add in a buffer to get your 7.6 pH water up to 8.2 pH when you do water changes. This is what I do with each water change (I do 50% weekly) for my WC Moba.

My buffer solution consists of baking soda (to increase pH) and epsom salt (to increase GH). My tap water is ~6.4 pH, 0.0 KH and 0.0 GH. My tank water is a consistent 8.4 pH, 8 dKH, and 12 dGH. One time I tried to acclimate my WC Frontosa to a lower pH gradually over 4 weeks to around 7.7ph - 7.8ph but this just did not work. They didn't like it.

But if you get domestically bred Frontosa then just ask your supplier their water readings and if they're close to yours then great. If the difference is significant then I would acclimate the new fish to your water over 2-3 weeks.

 

[Caperguy99]

If you are getting wild caught Frontosa then I would do what duanes recommended and add in a buffer to get your 7.6 pH water up to 8.2 pH when you do water changes. This is what I do with each water change (I do 50% weekly) for my WC Moba.

My buffer solution consists of baking soda (to increase pH) and epsom salt (to increase GH). My tap water is ~6.4 pH, 0.0 KH and 0.0 GH. My tank water is a consistent 8.4 pH, 8 dKH, and 12 dGH. One time I tried to acclimate my WC Frontosa to a lower pH gradually over 4 weeks to around 7.7ph - 7.8ph but this just did not work. They didn't like it.

But if you get domestically bred Frontosa then just ask your supplier their water readings and if they're close to yours then great. If the difference is significant then I would acclimate the new fish to your water over 2-3 weeks.

Thanks for the tips -

Mine will not be wild caught - I’m looking to buy from one of the Canadian breeding populations. Either Québec Cichlidés or Aquarists Across Canada.

At the moment, I’m thinking of just going with the African Cichlid caribsea substrate and doing water changes without a buffer. I’m guessing this will keep the tank around 8 - which seems to be alright for a domestic strain, according to what I’ve been reading. My water out of the tap is already 7.6-7.8 PH, with a KH of 8 and a GH of 17. In your experience, would this be appropriate for these fish?

I’ll probably have to wait until the summer to actually buy the fish, though - as I live in a very rural area and companies won’t ship fish in the winter here in Canada.

I’ve been hoping to find somebody who has kept Frontosa for years to talk to about my overall plan - there’s lots of information available online, but many of the video guides are by people who clearly have only recently set up a tank or had a colony going for a year or so. I’m hoping to keep them for the long term.

 

[jjohnwm]

Yeah, nothing like an internet "care guide" posted by someone with little or even no experience with the species in question. "I've had him almost a week; lemme tell you how to keep these guys!" I swear some of those guides are based entirely upon info gleaned from other sites...some of whom did the same thing...and so on...and so on...very sad.

In addition to those Canadian sources you mentioned, I just thought I'd recommend that you check out aFISHionados in Winnipeg. I happened to be there today and saw several different strains of Frontosas for sale, all labelled as to provenance, some WC and some domestic. I'm not into African Cichlids even a little bit, but I know a beautiful fish when I see one and I saw lots today. Spencer knows his stuff, and I find his prices tend to be significantly better than Aquarists Across Canada. He's obviously a lot closer to you as well. I consider myself to be very fortunate to have such a terrific shop so (relatively) close to my home.