Structural integrity of the second floor of a single family home

[Hybridfish7]

Give me the end all clarification on this. If I put:
a 40 breeder
a 30 long
a 29 biocube
two 15s
a 10 gallon
and two 8s
(totaling 155 gallons)
in a 21 x 18 foot room on the second floor of a ~3800 square foot house, built somewhere around 2004
this is roughly 1364 lbs of water + ~250 lbs of glass + about 260 lbs of hardscape/substrate, aka ~1874 lbs of tank


This is the current placement of the tanks.


This is what I would like to do. I can move certain things if there is too much weight on one side of the room but there is also other furniture in the room to somewhat even weight distribution. Albeit these don't weigh as much as a tank but yknow. I would assume having them closer to the actual frame of the house/vertical supports is better than having them in the middle of such a wide room though.

Is it going to fall through the floor?

Currently there is only a 40, a 10, 2 15s and a 30 in the room. I have been to places where there were 125-300 gallons worth of tanks on the 20th floor (or higher) of an apartment complex.

My mom sends me screenshots of google saying "there should only be 4 tanks in a bedroom" or "a bedroom can only hold 40 pounds per square foot" every time she sees me carrying an empty tank. Today she is telling my dad to tell me the same thing because she saw me carrying a tank I was using for qt and just cleaned out. This has been a thing she does for the last 6 years and there have been tanks in my room the whole time. In fact there were more tanks in the earlier years.

My logic is that the structural integrity of a HOUSE surely can't be less than a thing I built out of 2x4s (the giant rack in the basement holding 410 gallons worth of tanks).

Correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[wednesday13]

125’s are pretty common 2nd floor tanks. Im nobody but i think ur more than fine spread out like that. Rule of thumb is always perpendicular to ur floor joists and use the outside walls. I dont think ur pushing the limits too bad at all.

 

[skjl47]

Hello; The OP is trying to logic it out. Not a workable solution. Too many variables unknown for anyone not present and not having proper structural knowledge. On top of those restrictions critical parts of the house may not be able to be seen because the walls and floors are finished. Floor joists may not be up to codes or may have been compromised.
My house had some of the floor joists notched by whoever installed the garage door openers. I wound up taking down the openers so i could sister in bracing floor joists. Shadetree plumbers, electricians and other such have been known to do very dumb things so they can run a pipe or duct thru structure. Point being you need an experienced contractor or structural engineer to have an actual look see at the structure.

I put a 55 gallon on the upper floor over my basement around 12 years ago. My house has 2x8 floor joists on 16 inch centers. The tank would slosh a bit as i walked near. Wound up needing to brace under the tank. I was lucky in that my basement is unfinished.

A main question is who owns the house. I am guessing since the OP mentioned a mother & father the house is theirs. I also am guessing the OP is seeking some sort of support from us so as to hopefully override parent(s) worried about structural damage. I cannot give such and figure none of us can. We are not present so any opinion is a guess since we do not know the condition of the structure.

125’s are pretty common 2nd floor tanks.

Hello; This may be so. I do not know. I would not put a tank more than 75 gallons on an upper wooden joist floor myself without a good look at the structure and/or some extra bracing. There is a difference between what one person gets away with and what the next guy damages. If the thread persists I will see if some of my saved information still exists. This topic has been discussed very often before.

 

[Hybridfish7]

My house had some of the floor joists notched by whoever installed the garage door openers. I wound up taking down the openers so i could sister in bracing floor joists. Shadetree plumbers, electricians and other such have been known to do very dumb things so they can run a pipe or duct thru structure. Point being you need an experienced contractor or structural engineer to have an actual look see at the structure.

If it helps, the room is above the ground floor living room in a corner of the house that is nowhere near any plumbing, aside from the boiler room which is in the basement 2 floors directly below. Tanks do not move when I walk. House I would say is in good condition structurally, not sure what else you'd be looking for there though

 

[skjl47]

If it helps, the room is above the ground floor living room in a corner of the house that is nowhere near any plumbing, aside from the boiler room which is in the basement 2 floors directly below. Tanks do not move when I walk. House I would say is in good condition structurally, not sure what else you'd be looking for there though

Hello; My point so far has been neither you nor I know the condition of the structure. Have termites been in the wood? Did someone cut holes in or notch a joist improperly? Did the builder cut corners? Has there been some other unknown structure problem now hidden behind drywall? Drywall, carpet, and other such decorations hide the structure too much in many houses.
I would want to see the actual joists. My house, for example has an unfinished basement under 2/3 rds. of the house. I could the joists. I could get in the attic and see the celling and roof joists. The condition of the wood was easy to tell. I was able to test for soft spots. I could see if mold was present. I could see that the end of the joists were supported properly. That is the sort of thing to check. If you know about those things have a look. If not hire someone who does know is the point.
Anyone on here, having never seen the house, who tells you all will be fine are practicing wishful thinking. I get that we all want there to be some sort of basic standard. Most folks live life on the assumption such things as floor structures are all just fine.

My 55 gallon shook because i put it on the floor joists running parallel under it. Was where i needed it to be so i tried that spot. Wound up having to go in the basement and install a brace. Easy enough in an unfinished basement. Not so easy in a second story room.

More useful would-be information about which direction the floor joists run in your rooms floor and where the load bearing wall are. Even with that information I nor anyone on here can tell you what the floor will hold. Best we can do is point out that placing tanks along the load bearing wall and perpendicular to that wall as someone already has.

Rule of thumb is always perpendicular to ur floor joists and use the outside walls.

But good luck regardless.

 

[Hybridfish7]

Hello; My point so far has been neither you nor I know the condition of the structure. Have termites been in the wood? Did someone cut holes in or notch a joist improperly? Did the builder cut corners? Has there been some other unknown structure problem now hidden behind drywall? Drywall, carpet, and other such decorations hide the structure too much in many houses.
I would want to see the actual joists. My house, for example has an unfinished basement under 2/3 rds. of the house. I could the joists. I could get in the attic and see the celling and roof joists. The condition of the wood was easy to tell. I was able to test for soft spots. I could see if mold was present. I could see that the end of the joists were supported properly. That is the sort of thing to check. If you know about those things have a look. If not hire someone who does know is the point.
Anyone on here, having never seen the house, who tells you all will be fine are practicing wishful thinking. I get that we all want there to be some sort of basic standard. Most folks live life on the assumption such things as floor structures are all just fine.

My 55 gallon shook because i put it on the floor joists running parallel under it. Was where i needed it to be so i tried that spot. Wound up having to go in the basement and install a brace. Easy enough in an unfinished basement. Not so easy in a second story room.

More useful would-be information about which direction the floor joists run in your rooms floor and where the load bearing wall are. Even with that information I nor anyone on here can tell you what the floor will hold. Best we can do is point out that placing tanks along the load bearing wall and perpendicular to that wall as someone already has.

But good luck regardless.

The storage room (2 floors directly under the room) is unfinished, i can probably look at the ceiling joists. Would it be a good indicator of the structural integrity up here?

 

[skjl47]

The storage room (2 floors directly under the room) is unfinished, i can probably look at the ceiling joists. Would it be a good indicator of the structural integrity up here?

Hello; For sure could yield useful information. Will not necessarily tell you what the structure is two stories above. Such is the main point. Finding god structure in one area is better than finding questionable structure but it is not going to be foolproof.
Do you actually know what is good structure compared to bad structure?
Here is a thing. I put a 55 gallon in a spot in my house because it is my house. I have no one else to answer to and mostly I am the one who will have to bear the cost if the decision goes bad. I still suspect you are trying to talk your parents into letting you add more load to the house. If I am correct about the purpose of this thread then they will bear the cost if it is a mistake.
I think you are fortunate to have permission for what you already have in a second story room. I would not allow such in my house. As much for the water damage risk as for the weight.

If I have not misread posts there are tanks in a basement, correct? If such is the case, can you have more stuff down there?

 

[Hybridfish7]

I still suspect you are trying to talk your parents into letting you add more load to the house

I am trying to figure out a way to get my mom to stop saying stuff about the tanks in my room. As mentioned, said tanks have not had any issues for the last 6 years and she only now decides to have a problem because today's google results gave her an answer she didn't like. Admittedly she'll say things like this and then forget about the subject within a few hours, but while my dad admittedly has faith in the structural integrity of the house, she has now made it his problem, and he is not as forgetful. The intention of this post is to find a concrete reason to give them as to why the existing tanks aren't an issue and why my long term plans for tanks up here will not be a further issue.

More in support of my argument is the fact that people have waterbeds... which hold significantly more water than what I have up here, and are probably a worse risk for significant water damage. The only risks for water damage with my tanks are really just the hang on back/canister filters, which evidently have the chance to drain a few gallons onto the floor if they're clogged/have improperly assembled parts. This is preventable through regular upkeep/proper handling though. I don't expect tanks this small to randomly explode or blow a seal, nor do I expect the stands I've built to randomly fall over.


Here's what we're working with for floor joists, 2 floors directly below. They are 2x10s spaced a little over a foot apart. This means the tanks I have up here are essentially either sitting directly on two, or right on top of one, running parallel. None at the moment are on a load bearing wall however, but I'm not sure this matters when the tank weighs the same as a person. If the floor can't support a 40 gallon (the biggest tank up here) then that implies it can't support two people sleeping on the same bed in this room. Or a really fat/muscular guy. I'm aware live load has more of a strain on wood than dead load. I'm not sure if the second floor has the same steel beams but if it does I'd assume that adds a bit of support if it does. I wouldn't expect the beams to be running the full 18 feet unsupported. Wood is dry/solid, feels better than the lumber I buy nowadays.

 

[skjl47]

The intention of this post is to find a concrete reason to give them as to why the existing tanks aren't an issue and why my long term plans for tanks up here will not be a further issue.

that people have waterbeds... which hold significantly more water than what I have up here, and are probably a worse risk for significant water damage.

only risks for water damage with my tanks are really just the hang on back/canister filters,

Hello; You argue well but make assumptions that cannot be confirmed. I will look for the old information links. There are live loads such as a person or people being in a room temporarily. Then there are the static loads such as beds, chairs and in your case the aquariums. A heavy static load can slowly cause distortion. It is not necessarily going to be a sudden failure where the floor gives away. It can be a slight bending of the floor and supports over time.

The waterbed tack is not one I would use. I was around during the start of the waterbed era. They did do damage and did leak out.

That your tanks only risk for leaks is the HOB is simply not correct. I have been keeping tanks since 1959 and have had tanks let go in many ways. From sudden big leaks to slow leaks. Any tank can leak and there is no way to know when. We each take a chance with that.

I get your dilemma. You are under the roof of other people. They may be kind and somewhat tolerant by being your parents. A thing is the nature of things is "their house = their rules". I think you have been very fortunate already. I have seen what water damage can do to a house. Such is the reason I removed the carpet from the room in which I have three tanks on a floor similar to the floor in your picture. I replaced the carpet with the thick commercial vinyl tiles common in stores. For a time in my younger years I worked for carpet company. Wet carpet takes too long to dry out and does leave damage.

At some point you likely will go out into the world on your own. Then you can try to buy your own place and do whatever you want. The risk of damage will be yours alone. The current situation is you want to have a risky hobby in terms of weight and water leaks but other people take the risk if something goes wrong. Fair enough if you can pull it off. I cannot sugar coat the risks simply because over a long time I have seen the real consequences.

You did not address the basement possibility for your tanks. Is there a basement you can use. It would be very sweet to have a basement with a concrete floor and a floor drain.

 

[Hybridfish7]

Hello; You argue well but make assumptions that cannot be confirmed. I will look for the old information links. There are live loads such as a person or people being in a room temporarily. Then there are the static loads such as beds, chairs and in your case the aquariums. A heavy static load can slowly cause distortion. It is not necessarily going to be a sudden failure where the floor gives away. It can be a slight bending of the floor and supports over time.

The waterbed tack is not one I would use. I was around during the start of the waterbed era. They did do damage and did leak out.

That your tanks only risk for leaks is the HOB is simply not correct. I have been keeping tanks since 1959 and have had tanks let go in many ways. From sudden big leaks to slow leaks. Any tank can leak and there is no way to know when. We each take a chance with that.

I get your dilemma. You are under the roof of other people. They may be kind and somewhat tolerant by being your parents. A thing is the nature of things is "their house = their rules". I think you have been very fortunate already. I have seen what water damage can do to a house. Such is the reason I removed the carpet from the room in which I have three tanks on a floor similar to the floor in your picture. I replaced the carpet with the thick commercial vinyl tiles common in stores. For a time in my younger years I worked for carpet company. Wet carpet takes too long to dry out and does leave damage.

At some point you likely will go out into the world on your own. Then you can try to buy your own place and do whatever you want. The risk of damage will be yours alone. The current situation is you want to have a risky hobby in terms of weight and water leaks but other people take the risk if something goes wrong. Fair enough if you can pull it off. I cannot sugar coat the risks simply because over a long time I have seen the real consequences.

You did not address the basement possibility for your tanks. Is there a basement you can use. It would be very sweet to have a basement with a concrete floor and a floor drain.

There are already tanks in the basement yes, much larger than what is upstairs, which I am obviously thankful for but if there are people with thousand pound gun safes or home gyms in their bedrooms I don't see why there should be so much of an issue with me having a few of my smaller "collector's" tanks in the bedroom (30 long/15 long is discontinued, biocube, fluval flex I got for $25, two rimless tanks I got for $20. 40 and 10 are standards but sentimental value because that was the first 40 breeder I got + the 10 is the first tank I ever successfully bred fish in).

I am not denying your advice as you make valid points, and I appreciate you taking the time to respond, but your stance does seem clouded by the bias of what you believe to be acceptable, and this does not help my case. Again all of my tanks are small and many advancements have been made in the last 66 years. I do not doubt the things you've seen but I am not sure the same stigmas are applicable to my tanks.