Somatostatin

[HUKIT]

Does anyone have any links to scientific data or anecdotal evidence(this might be hard to quantify I assume) that aquatic or terrestrial plants negate Somatostatin(the hormone that regulates fish growth and metabolism)? I couldn’t really find any published experiments supporting his hypothesis that plants absorb somatostatin or are even reduced by plants alone, just a lot of “trust me bro” posts on aquarium forums. This conversation started with my close friend who’s a hobbyist as well and it’s regarding fish growth rates between our two systems for the same species.

 

[danotaylor]

I had actually never heard of somostatin mate. As as RN of 35 years, and 10 years of recent critical care experience I am intrigued though. Body mechanics is off great interest to me.
Quick search reveals it as a peptide hormone and neuropeptide, produced within the fish itself, that regulates growth (as you already know )
Because is internally produced, it would make no sense that plants would have any direct primary effect, positive or negative, in relation to its effect on fish.
Secondary effects of plant presence that affect growth could include nitrate reduction in the water column.
Other effects on somostatin production may include the quality of feed.
Do you and your friend live in the same area? Same source water? I wonder if the presence or lack thereof certain metabolites, minerals or other dissolved elements affect somostatin production?
Of course, these are more questions similar to what you are asking, and seeking documented evidence for….so I will graciously pipe down now, bow out, and wait to see if any of our research savvy peeps can give you more than a keenly interested persons unproven hypothesis

 

[phreeflow]

Does anyone have any links to scientific data or anecdotal evidence(this might be hard to quantify I assume) that aquatic or terrestrial plants negate Somatostatin(the hormone that regulates fish growth and metabolism)? I couldn’t really find any published experiments supporting his hypothesis that plants absorb somatostatin or are even reduced by plants alone, just a lot of “trust me bro” posts on aquarium forums. This conversation started with my close friend who’s a hobbyist as well and it’s regarding fish growth rates between our two systems for the same species.

I’ve heard of somatostatin but was always told larger fish release it to keep the competition from growing, hence carbon or water changes. Never heard plants could absorb it.

However, it seems danotaylor is on to something since it’s internally produced and affects said fish, not others. Did a quick search and I couldn’t find any studies about fish releasing “growth inhibiting hormones” as a competitive advantage at all, let alone any studies about plants uptaking it.

lol…I guess it’s all just a bunch of nonsense that’s been repeated throughout the years

 

[HUKIT]

I had actually never heard of somostatin mate. As as RN of 35 years, and 10 years of recent critical care experience I am intrigued though. Body mechanics is off great interest to me.
Quick search reveals it as a peptide hormone and neuropeptide, produced within the fish itself, that regulates growth (as you already know )
Because is internally produced, it would make no sense that plants would have any direct primary effect, positive or negative, in relation to its effect on fish.
Secondary effects of plant presence that affect growth could include nitrate reduction in the water column.
Other effects on somostatin production may include the quality of feed.
Do you and your friend live in the same area? Same source water? I wonder if the presence or lack thereof certain metabolites, minerals or other dissolved elements affect somostatin production?
Of course, these are more questions similar to what you are asking, and seeking documented evidence for….so I will graciously pipe down now, bow out, and wait to see if any of our research savvy peeps can give you more than a keenly interested persons unproven hypothesis

Yes sir our water conditions are nearly identical with PH around 8.2 and hardness of 300ppm. We both relatively feed the same diet, I don’t power feed and always feed the slow and steady method. I do substantially more water changes than he does as my tanks have never seen 20ppm of N03, where as his are generally 30-40ppm as his tank/sump are heavily planted.

I understand there are so many factors that can influence growth. What sparked the conversation is we both bought 12 Oscura heterospila(they’re a notoriously slowing growing species) from Kevin at TUIC before he closed.

I’ve heard of somatostatin but was always told larger fish release it to keep the competition from growing, hence carbon or water changes. Never heard plants could absorb it.

However, it seems danotaylor is on to something since it’s internally produced and affects said fish, not others. Did a quick search and I couldn’t find any studies about fish releasing “growth inhibiting hormones” as a competitive advantage at all, let alone any studies about plants uptaking it.

lol…I guess it’s all just a bunch of nonsense that’s been repeated throughout the years

I’ve always heard about fish releasing this specific growth hormone but didn’t know it was named Somatostatin until I started to dig into it a little bit. I just figured it’s like Santa Claus as you always hear about him but you’ve never actually seen him. He just so adamant that plants absorbs it, hence the reason why his have grown substantially more than mine. I will admit he’s got a doctorate in geology so he’s well educated. I’ve never really have been interested in planted tanks so trying to have a certain discussions with him is like a toddler talking to Neil deGrasse Tyson about astrophysics.

 

[danotaylor]

Very strange that his nitrates are higher, typically a growth hindering metabolite, but his growth rate is better. That’s perplexing.
I’m all for the slow and steady feeding approach as well. If your fish are healthy I guess there’s not too much to worry about.
Love to see some pics of them if you’re so inclined mate

 

[HUKIT]

This is a couple a months ago. They share a 240g with a bunch of Amatitlania nanolutea and around 75 lemon tetras. This was exactly 24 months and they vary from 5-6”.

 

[danotaylor]

Very nice mate! Thanks for sharing

 

[danotaylor]

I found this study at work tonight. I didn’t read it all. Too much for me, but does present scientific research related to the question at hand, and involves Cichlids!

Social Status Controls Somatostatin Neuron Size and Growth

Many animal species show flexible behavioral responses to environmental and social changes. Such responses typically require changes in the neural substrate responsible for particular behavioral states. We have shown previously in the African cichlid fish, Haplochromis burtoni , that changes in...

www.jneurosci.org

Happy reading my friend!

 

[HUKIT]

I found this study at work tonight. I didn’t read it all. Too much for me, but does present scientific research related to the question at hand, and involves Cichlids!

Social Status Controls Somatostatin Neuron Size and Growth

Many animal species show flexible behavioral responses to environmental and social changes. Such responses typically require changes in the neural substrate responsible for particular behavioral states. We have shown previously in the African cichlid fish, Haplochromis burtoni , that changes in...

www.jneurosci.org

Happy reading my friend!

I clearly need the “for dummies” or cliff notes version, especially after they started getting into the affects on gonad size, Lol. I will just take the L here and let my friend win this round.

 

[jjohnwm]

Seems that there are so many factors (both obvious and obscure) influencing growth rate that it would be pretty difficult for a hobbyist/aquarist to pin down any one of them as being THE one that caused the fish in this tank to grow faster than the ones in that tank over there.

I had a buddy once upon a time who purchased a Giant Gouramy at the same time and the same size as I did, and yet after a year his was about 18 inches in length whereas mine was about a foot long. Huh? I did way more water changes than he did, and I believe that I was feeding a better diet (as opposed to the 100% Trout Chow regimen he employed), but both fish looked healthy, both appeared to be males, and both were well-fed but not overfed. We constantly debated what the deal was. Was his fish's high-protein diet a factor (mine ate a lot of greens, relatively little animal protein)? Probably. He also kept his fish tank about 5 F degrees warmer than mine. Had to have something to do with that. He was convinced that his tank's exposure to natural sunlight (mine was in a dingy basement, lit entirely artificially) increased his fish's growth rate...and I couldn't deny it. He was a cat guy; I like dogs. Hmmm.... I thought it was futile to dwell on it.

But now...I think this thread has the answer! This Stuntostatin stuff was all wonky with one or the other fish, or both of them! I haven't talked to that guy in years; maybe I should look him up and tell him about it?

Nah....