Is this a Red Head Tapajos?

[neutrino]

Ya I’ve read that. I feel like they are one of the more common Geos I see at my LFS. Maybe a local breeder or maybe they are mislabeled

They're frequently mislabeled and not really surinamensis. This goes back years, before scientists described many of today's species and when they were assumed to merely be different populations of the same fish. Many sellers don't know this or don't know differences between species, or simply label whatever they can't identify as surinamensis. Worse, some sellers continue to label eartheaters that are no longer even in the Geophagus genus as Geophagus (in fact, there's likely to be more splitting of Geophagus into additional genera). As far as the true Geophagus surinamensis, they have a limited range and aren't commercially exported, making them very rare in the hobby, generally limited to a few private individuals who've actually gone to collect them and subsequently bred and distributed a few among friends-- most of this is in Europe. Even this assumes a knowledgeable collector who knows what they're doing, gets to the right location, and can distinguish surinamensis from the other Geophagus in the same area.

While a lot of the "surinamensis group" geos look similar, especially as juveniles, and can be difficult to distinguish unless you've kept them (and I've seen keepers still be wrong because they believed what an uninformed seller said) or have reliable source information, altifrons and pyrocephalus are actually some of the easier ones to distinguish, though very young pyrocpephalus might be confused with some of the other striped tail geos until they grow a bit.

 

[neutrino]

...The good news is true surinanensis are sought after mainly for their rarity, while altifrons, sveni, winemilleri, pyrocephalus, and others are just as good or better looking.

 

[duanes]

Here´s an adult altifons (about 10-12¨), I found them a great species to keep

 

[bassin_rob]

They're frequently mislabeled and not really surinamensis. This goes back years, before scientists described many of today's species and when they were assumed to merely be different populations of the same fish. Many sellers don't know this or don't know differences between species, or simply label whatever they can't identify as surinamensis. Worse, some sellers continue to label eartheaters that are no longer even in the Geophagus genus as Geophagus (in fact, there's likely to be more splitting of Geophagus into additional genera). As far as the true Geophagus surinamensis, they have a limited range and aren't commercially exported, making them very rare in the hobby, generally limited to a few private individuals who've actually gone to collect them and subsequently bred and distributed a few among friends-- most of this is in Europe. Even this assumes a knowledgeable collector who knows what they're doing, gets to the right location, and can distinguish surinamensis from the other Geophagus in the same area.

While a lot of the "surinamensis group" geos look similar, especially as juveniles, and can be difficult to distinguish unless you've kept them (and I've seen keepers still be wrong because they believed what an uninformed seller said) or have reliable source information, altifrons and pyrocephalus are actually some of the easier ones to distinguish, though very young pyrocpephalus might be confused with some of the other striped tail geos until they grow a bit.

Thank you for all the info! Super interesting. I called the local shop and they said they are very confident that it’s a red head. I told them I’m confident they are wrong, but will hang on to it and wait for the colors to develop a bit more to be sure

 

[duanes]

It may be interesting to note that many Geophagines were once separated by the rivers they were found in, and not classified as separate species,
even as late as the republish date of Weidners Earth Eater Book in the year 2000, and were considered color morph variations, and clades.

Its only with the the intricacies offered by DNA markers that such separations in familial relatioship are able to be realized.

And then there are the random combinations almost assured, when and if spawnings occur in community tanks, where riverine separations are not respected or even considered.
In nature a Geo from Rio Araguari, would never come into contact with , much less have a chance to breed with a Geo from the Rio Xingu.
Buts in aquaria all things are possible unless those from separate rivers are maintained or kept apart in separate tanks.

 

[duanes]

Of course this isn´t restricted to Geos alone,
Texas Cichlid clade is now littered with unidentifiable mutts,
as is Amphilophus where in-ID-able Red Devils are the norm,
or Heros
or Vieja and Amatilania where its almost impossible to locate something that isn´t a cartoonish mixed gene FH., or mutated BP.

 

[neutrino]

Thank you for all the info! Super interesting. I called the local shop and they said they are very confident that it’s a red head. I told them I’m confident they are wrong, but will hang on to it and wait for the colors to develop a bit more to be sure

The spot on altifrons is just a few scales, as in your photos (they're also a larger fish as adults). I found photos to illustrate the difference-- link here-- and as apparent, even juvenile red heads have a larger spot and striped tail (not to mention a different bar pattern). Even at an inch or so (second photo) before they develop the bold tail stripes, the pattern is horizontal, not the vertical pattern of your photos. (I used to breed them)

 

[duanes]

Weidners book subtly touches on the problems of stocking communiity tanks with closely related species, without actually be-laboring the point (like I do)
One of the problems common with many cichlid keepers, is because we are drawn to body shapes, colors, or mouth types together, so we try to keep a bevy of Parachromis in the same tank, or Vieja, or eartheaters together, when this is diametrically opposed to the way they occur in nature.

One usually finds a single species of Parachromis per country, or at best large river system.
So the idea of cramming 2 or 3 species of Parachromis, or Geos in a tank the size of a 6ft drainage ditch, is even less desirable

 

[bassin_rob]

View attachment 1575903
Weidners book subtly touches on the problems of stocking communiity tanks with closely related species, without actually be-laboring the point (like I do)
One of the problems common with many cichlid keepers, is because we are drawn to body shapes, colors, or mouth types together, so we try to keep a bevy of Parachromis in the same tank, or Vieja, or eartheaters together, when this is diametrically opposed to the way they occur in nature.

One usually finds a single species of Parachromis per country, or at best large river system.
So the idea of cramming 2 or 3 species of Parachromis, or Geos in a tank the size of a 6ft drainage ditch, is even less desirable

That makes sense. I have mostly red heads but I do have a few others mixed in. I’m currently looking into getting a 180ish gallon tank. And was considering rehoming all but one species and getting a bigger school of the one. Haven’t decided on a tank yet, trying to figure out the best route to go.

 

[neutrino]

The funny thing is, while geo species rarely interbreed (I've seen or heard of very few cases), every case I know of involved red heads.