My NEW "Super-Duper Red" EMPEROR STRAIN Firemouths

[BIG-G]

I understand the moral dilemma. But really it only hurts the hobby if they are passed on to others as the real species.
If anyone were to want to breed for extra red as long as they pass this info about their fish it shouldn't do damage.
I understand the fear, most people will not do the right thing.

 

[Stanzzzz7]

I understand the moral dilemma. But really it only hurts the hobby if they are passed on to others as the real species.
If anyone were to want to breed for extra red as long as they pass this info about their fish it shouldn't do damage.
I understand the fear, most people will not do the right thing.

That's the problem, most people won't do the right thing.
I do see your point BIG-G but the long term picture for many species in the hobby is sketchy due to cross breeding.
I realise the op is not crossing species but he is changing them. It does not always work long term. Look how weak ebjd are
Livebearers are also weak and prone to illness. I won't deny there are also species in the hobby that have been line bred and remain healthy.
I guess I am speaking mostly on a personal level as I am automatically repelled from fish altered by man's help.
Lots of habitats of our cichlids are being lost or polluted or destroyed by dam building etc,I feel it would be a tragedy to be left with bright red super duper meeki,electric blue jack Dempseys and long finned oscars.
We won't all sing from the same hymn sheet on this but the long term threat to true species in the hobby is becoming very real.

 

[Wailua Boy]

I do respect everyone's opinion but to each their own.I personally dont like the idea of wild caught fish being placed in aquariums but thats just me, they seem more valuable in the wild were they they may potentially spawn and complete life cycle. Further more I wouldnt necessarily agree that all line bred species are prone to illness or are weakened in some way, although that maybe true in most instances especially with mass produced species. I do feel breeders should go to great lengths to prevent cross breeding. There are some great captive breeding programs out there and some terrible. The wild capture of most(but not all) aquarium species is unsustainable and is only going to become more unsustainable. IMO

 

[BIG-G]

Your most likely right about wild catching fish being unsustainable.
For a lot of native people it is a big part of their income.
There are some programs being put into place to help remedy this problem but sadly I believe most of the efforts are being focused on reef animals and saltwater fishes.
I believe in the future the aquarium hobby will be more and more dependent on captive breeding.
I'm okay with that as long as there are some sort of effort to make sure the quality of animals are kept at respectable levels.

 

[Cyberman]

I had some huge F1 Meeks but both my 7" male an 5" female died suddenly... So one argument cancels out the other or six and two threes or half a dozen of the other. Wilder fish can be more fragile of water conditions or easily upset causing illness whereas domestic specimens might be prone to genetic weakness.

My ideal would be to form a super red larger more robust fish captivating and enhancing all the best features and characteristics of a TRUE FIREMOUTH!!

Now how did RD change the colouring of his text?

 

[dan518]

I feel there are many reasons to preserve what nature provides.
To me the idea of line breeding for specific traits can only lead to harm.
Lots of fish in the hobby are becoming in danger of extinction in the wild,some already are.
Can you imagine living in a world where only long finned oscars exist.No thanks.

With regards to central America it's a very unbalanced echo system mainly because it's still in its infancy and the 3 rd wave of fish are only just making it up from south America, over the next few million years the fish fauna of ca will start resembling sa. Over this time many of the heroine cichlids of central America will go extinct as better adapted species from the south out compete them, this isn't helped by humans dropping fish from different continents into the mix as well but should we be trying to save fish that are naturally going to go extinct?
No matter how hard we try to preserve endangered or extinct species in the hobby we are all ways going to be line breeding them to a certain extent, hobbiest are always going to breed what they think is the best pair based on appearances. The A lyonsi I see today seem more colourful then the ones I saw ten years ago.
I don't actually disagree with you just bored at work and thought I would throw the other side of the argument out there.

 

[Stanzzzz7]

With regards to central America it's a very unbalanced echo system mainly because it's still in its infancy and the 3 rd wave of fish are only just making it up from south America, over the next few million years the fish fauna of ca will start resembling sa. Over this time many of the heroine cichlids of central America will go extinct as better adapted species from the south out compete them, this isn't helped by humans dropping fish from different continents into the mix as well but should we be trying to save fish that are naturally going to go extinct?
No matter how hard we try to preserve endangered or extinct species in the hobby we are all ways going to be line breeding them to a certain extent, hobbiest are always going to breed what they think is the best pair based on appearances. The A lyonsi I see today seem more colourful then the ones I saw ten years ago.
I don't actually disagree with you just bored at work and thought I would throw the other side of the argument out there.

Well cheers mate.
Actually you do have a point.
Now get back to work you slacker.;-)

 

[dan518]

Well cheers mate.
Actually you do have a point.
Now get back to work you slacker.;-)

Yes boss.

 

[Hendre]

Interesting arguements here.

I think maintaining a population of wild fish is a good thing, but the amount of fish required to do that makes life difficult to do given that at least 200 of a creature is on the lower end of minimum required to maintain genetic diversity. Imagine enough tanks for that?

A mix of sustainable collection and captive breeding is probably best for the hobby, and occasional mixing of wild blood would be ideal I think

 

[J. H.]

I don't see why this is an issue. With the Rift Lake cichlids, this battle was fought and forgotten long ago. If you like line bred, there are n. leleupi, Borleyi and others, if you like hybrid, there are dragon blood, sunshine/lemon jake, OB peacock and others.. and there is no shortage of 'pure strain' fish.