100% water change good or bad?

[12 Volt Man]

for the record, people that are saying it is 'bad' should spend some time on the discus sites, like simplydiscus.com.

most people there do 100% water changes all the time. many daily.

now, what people forget is that the water is carefully treated (in a vessel) prior to addition - so the water chemistry and temperature is a close match.

they are not throwing 100% tap water with different pH etc on top of their fish and hoping they live.

if it is done properly, the key word being properly, it is fine.

ps I used to keep discus too

but I never did the 100% changes, as, bad or good, I felt it was unnecessary.

I used to do one third twice or three times per week, and my discus thrived..

 

[jcardona1]

If by mistake your change goes alittle long and youre replacing anything over 50% with tap water make sure the incomming water is crashing against a rock or a piece of wood. This helps dissipate the chlorine thats in your tap water.

oh man i feel bad for the other guy now for telling him to be quiet. you sir have a bad case of verbal diarrhea. this is the dumbest thing ive ever heard. thanks for the early morning laugh

and yeah ncnutcase is spot on with everything. ive been saying the same thing, except he took the time to explain everything thoroughly. if you still think his info is wrong, then god help you

 

[jcardona1]

and btw, this isnt the first thread regarding 100% WCs, there have been many. and theyre all full of bad info and incoherent thoughts. and frankly, when it comes to topics likes this, if youre not absolutely sure that the info your are giving is correct, keep it to yourself. there are many people that dont know any better and are reading these threads following your advice

 

[trebor69]

for the record, people that are saying it is 'bad' should spend some time on the discus sites, like simplydiscus.com.

most people there do 100% water changes all the time. many daily.

now, what people forget is that the water is carefully treated (in a vessel) prior to addition - so the water chemistry and temperature is a close match.

they are not throwing 100% tap water with different pH etc on top of their fish and hoping they live.

if it is done properly, the key word being properly, it is fine.

ps I used to keep discus too

but I never did the 100% changes, as, bad or good, I felt it was unnecessary.

I used to do one third twice or three times per week, and my discus thrived..

amen to that 12 volt

for the record.... I have been keeping fish for 25+ years
and yes hillbilly I keep and BREED discus so I am quite familiar with them
and yes voltman I have been a member of simply for a long time

doing large daily wc with carefully prepared water like discus keepers do is a far cry from what people here are spewing

doing large frequent wc with tap water MAY be ok if done on a regular basis so as to keep the water chemistry in the tank consistent with your tap water

there are way too many factors involved in an aquarium 'ecosystem' to make a blanket statement and say 100% wc is great ok do it

the OP could very well kill his fish following such bad advice

100% water change CAN cause mini cycles in your tank
100% wc straight from the tap CAN cause gas bubble disease

OP all I can say is do a bit of reading on the net about mini cycles and gas bubble disease and the like and form your own opinion

I have A LOT of friends who have 1000s of years experience keeping and breeding fish....some with MASSIVE breeding setups. None of them would recommend 100% water changes as common practice.

oh and BTW....sticking a hose into a tank and turning it on and letting it mix with tank water while it overflows to a waste line is NOT doing a 100% change. I know many people who use 'constant drip systems' with emitters ranging from 1gph to 3gph with great success. In a system like that there is not a sudden 100% change....it is gradual and the tanks have time to adjust/maintain their stability.


anyway carry on

 

[jcardona1]

amen to that 12 volt

for the record.... I have been keeping fish for 25+ years
and yes hillbilly I keep and BREED discus so I am quite familiar with them
and yes voltman I have been a member of simply for a long time

doing large daily wc with carefully prepared water like discus keepers do is a far cry from what people here are spewing

doing large frequent wc with tap water MAY be ok if done on a regular basis so as to keep the water chemistry in the tank consistent with your tap water

there are way too many factors involved in an aquarium 'ecosystem' to make a blanket statement and say 100% wc is great ok do it

the OP could very well kill his fish following such bad advice

100% water change CAN cause mini cycles in your tank
100% wc straight from the tap CAN cause gas bubble disease

OP all I can say is do a bit of reading on the net about mini cycles and gas bubble disease and the like and form your own opinion

I have A LOT of friends who have 1000s of years experience keeping and breeding fish....some with MASSIVE breeding setups. None of them would recommend 100% water changes as common practice.

oh and BTW....sticking a hose into a tank and turning it on and letting it mix with tank water while it overflows to a waste line is NOT doing a 100% change. I know many people who use 'constant drip systems' with emitters ranging from 1gph to 3gph with great success. In a system like that there is not a sudden 100% change....it is gradual and the tanks have time to adjust/maintain their stability.


anyway carry on

there are so many contradictions in that i wont even bother. and i dont remember anyone saying 100% are great and they recommend doing them. most people here have enough common sense to realize that 100% WCs are not necessary, and the answer is smaller, more frequent changes, as was stated time and again by everybody. the disconnect between peoples brains and their fingers starts when they say that your fish will die if you die a 100% WC. this is simply NOT TRUE as long as your do it correctly (and im not gonna go into details about this)

i have tore down and moved tanks several times while moving and reloacting, never lost a fish after this "100% WC". do you think i carried 200g of water with me? hell no. all i did was make sure my bio media stayed alive, filled up the tank at the new place, acclimated the fish to the new water and dumped them in.

yes, this is a little different than doing a 100% WC in your home ever few weeks, but its the same concept

 

[bigspizz]

Gas embolism happens in the colder months, as cold water, holds more dissolved gasses. Late Spring, Summer, and Early fall, water (in all but the coldest climates) are all OK to do massive changes with. In the winter, it is best to do less water changes than you would in the warmer months. Gas embolism is a major killer in the aquatic world. Obviously using prime is key. People try to over-complicate this stuff too much. There will NEVER be 2 identical routines.

 

[jcardona1]

what he said ^

Karen is referring to the supersaturation of gases in tap water due to
pumping under pressure and/or cold water heating up to room temperature.
Tap water distribution systems are maintained under pressure at all
times, both to insure adequate flow and to prevent polluted water from
outside the pipes to enter in at leaks. Any additional gas introduced
into these pipes (e.g., a leaky manifold) will be dissolved at these
higher partial pressures, and will often be supersaturated when it
emerges from the tap. Also, gases are more soluble in cold water than
warm, so when gas-saturated cold water emerges from the tap and warms up
in an aquarium, the water becomes supersaturated and can form bubbles.

The problem resulting from this phenomenon is called gas-bubble disease.
This is characterized by the formation of gas bubbles in the body
cavities of fish, such as behind the eyes (causing exophthalmia) or
between layers of skin tissue. Small bubbles can form within the
vascular system, blocking the flow of blood and causing tissue death.
Worse, bubbles can form in the gill lamellae and block blood flow,
occasionally resulting in death by asphyxiation. At 140% saturation and
higher, gas bubble disease can cause fish kills, although the effect can
cause some problems at 105-140% saturation.

Stirring up bubbles during a water change doesn't hurt your fish, but it
probably doesn't do much for them, either. It may hasten the degassing
a bit, but you certainly aren't removing chlorine/chloramine by this
method. I've seen this myth mentioned on the list before, but I never
responded until now, because it is beginning to be repeated.

 

[jcardona1]

Gas embolism happens in the colder months, as cold water, holds more dissolved gasses. Late Spring, Summer, and Early fall, water (in all but the coldest climates) are all OK to do massive changes with. In the winter, it is best to do less water changes than you would in the warmer months. Gas embolism is a major killer in the aquatic world. Obviously using prime is key. People try to over-complicate this stuff too much. There will NEVER be 2 identical routines.

BINGO. this is getting out of hand. this isnt brain surgery. its a hobby. its keeping fish in a glass box. and, its supposed to be FUN

 

[hillbilly]

Well, only an idiot would do a water change with water that is the wrong temp., filled with chlorine, wrong PH etc.. However, people are making more and more boneheaded mistakes these days it seems, or at least you hear about them more thanks to the Internet forums. I worry that my grand kids may not be allowed to enjoy breeding fish the way I have due to irresponsible people doing stupid things like throwing exotics into rivers and etc.. I got my first tank in 1969 when I was 9 years old, and I can't recall a time when I've heard more misinformation about fish keeping than over the past couple of years. If you really think about it, there is little wonder that certain people want to ban fish imports to the states.

 

[Toby_H]

Whilst I do not necessarily disagree with the bulk of what nc_nutcase initialy posted, several times he has straight out called members liars based on their posts.

This is the comment that made me begin using the word lying…

I DID explain-too much too fast. I'd have gone into full detail about the CO2 concentrations of the water and how it changes pH but I honestly didn't think he'd understand (or care).

He acknowledged that he gave misinformation because he felt the OP wasn’t intelligent or caring enough to understand that precautions need to be taken to make 100% water changes safe… thus, he lied… consciously, knowingly and willingly…

More times than I mentioned “lying” I described the uselessness of short poorly thought out posts. I do not see the two approaches (short & dishonest) as the same nor have I addressed them as the same…

We are discussing water chemistry. Chemistry is a science. In science opinions do not matter, facts do. The opinions I have shared were in regards to the many poor posts I’ve seen. What I have shared regarding water changes has been a series of facts and the conclusion of honestly assessing them.

there are way too many factors involved in an aquarium 'ecosystem' to make a blanket statement and say 100% wc is great ok do it

I couldn’t agree more… nor have I seen one post that contradicts this. In every post I’ve read suggesting that 100% water changes can be done safely the poster understood enough to mention/agree that some precautions must be taken…

doing large daily wc with carefully prepared water like discus keepers do is a far cry from what people here are spewing

It’s not too different. The consistant advice here has been doing a 100% water change can be done without harm but you must make sure that water temps and parameters are the same… that is not quite “carefully prepared” water, but it is intelligently managed. Also keep in mind he is dealing with piranha, not discus.

100% water change CAN cause mini cycles in your tank

This is 100% false. Adding chlorine to the tank without treating for it can cause a mini cycle… removing too much of the bacterial colony can cause a mini cycle… other mistakes can be made that can cause a mini cycle… but the mistake is the culprit, not the water change… This is the sort of misinformation I have been criticizing from the beginning.

100% wc straight from the tap CAN cause gas bubble disease

I do not know enough about gas bubble disease to debate this scientifically (although BigSpiz seemed to) but I can speak from years of personal experience… I, and thousands of pythons users, add water directly to the tank from the tap. Why don’t all of our fish have gas bubble disease? This can only (again) be the result of misinformation…

People try to over-complicate this stuff too much.

Well… it becomes pretty complicated when people boast of many years experience then feed you full of misinformation… But with a proper understanding and a little common sense it does become quite simple…