125G Gladiator Tank - Vieja, Polleni, Cuban, GT?

[Murrayjane]

Hey guys, looking for some real-world experience on a 6ft 125G gladiator setup. Running an FX6 and doing 50-75% weekly WCs.

Not keeping all of these and I have a separate tank for any major issues.

Looking to have maybe 3-4 gladiators and have severums act as cichlid dither aggression support.

Current juveniles (all in the 2-4” range):

• 1x Vieja synspilum

• 1x True Parrot

• 1x Pearl Cichlid (probably will remove unless advised otherwise)

• 2x Starry Night (Polleni) (would only keep one)

• 3x Cuban (N. tetracanthus) (would only keep one at most and I have concerns with this one)

• 3x Green Terrors Gold Saums (sorting through to keep the best 1)

• 4x Severums (3 Red Shoulder & 1 Red Spotted) - will reduce the number

• 6x Spotted SDs (dithers)


The Questions:

1. The Cuban: Is he a death sentence for the Severums? I'm debating rehoming them now versus seeing if the Vieja keeps him in check.

2. The Mix: In a 125G, is a 5-6 cichlid "Power Tank" better for spreading aggression than a trio?

3. Polleni vs. Vieja: Who usually claims the alpha spot in this mix?

Would love to hear from anyone who has run this specific mix or has tips on hardscaping to keep the Polleni and Vieja on opposite sides.

I guess optimally I’d like a GT, Vieja Synspilum and at least one other of the listed candidates, but I welcome all feedback! Thank you in advance.

 

[duanes]

I have kept a number of the hard water high pH (pH 8ish)water parameter species (Cuban, Vieja) but not togther with the soft water low (pH 4 to 6) types, such as Heros, or other Amazonian S Americans, and some neutral water parameter type cichlids(Geophagus braziliensus, Paratilapia species). but
To me, just an adult pair of Nanadopsis tetracanthus mxed out a 125 by themselves.

Paratilapia can also be aggresive
I kept a quartet in a 130 gal, with no other cichlids

1 male and 3 females
Viejas can a little more forgiving, but also require real space or conflicts arise.
the Geo braziliensus clade work well until maturity and spawn, then as a pair will fend of anything to the death , an interloper especially even something much larger, but especially if it had similar irredecent markings is at risque

Cichlids find safety in numbers when young, but once maturity sets in, it can be carnage in a tank as small as a 125 (or 6 ft tank)
the size area these cichlids come from in nature makes a 6 ft/125 gal tank, seem like a tiny culvert, in comparison.

I coolect cichlids in nature, the above pics are where I find them, sometimes only two species to a river.

 

[jjohnwm]

Slightly different thread title...different username...small variations in stocking list...but, all in all, this thread appears on an almost daily basis. Tiresome.

duanes usually needs to correct the sometimes laughable mismatches of species with regard to water conditions. Apparently the keepers of Bad Ass Fishes rarely ever consider subtleties like pH, hardness, etc...but they always know a list of aggressive fish species that simply must be jammed together into a too-small tank in an attempt to create a knife-edge uneasy truce...for reasons that remain a mystery to many folk, myself included.

The fish tend to be purchased at a smallish size, sometimes with the proviso that some will be re-homed as they grow and their bad-assedness becomes an issue. Often these tanks will work after a fashion, for awhile, until somebody grows up and the hormones take hold. Then we sometimes hear that such-and-such fish got a little beat up last night, so tonight when I get home from work I might think about maybe removing him...except when the hopeful fishkeeper gets home from work, he finds that the problem has been solved for him, and often a couple more have appeared. Or sometimes, we never hear from the poster again.

 

[Omrit]

I don't want to get into the water hardness debate, but with these captive bred fish it is not that serious in my opinion. I breed angelfish in hard water without issue, and have had no problems with my severums. I do shy away from wild caught low PH fish like true parrots though.

Anyway the Severum is definitely not a cichlid dither, they are too big and slow for that. Some cichlids will leave them alone because of their size, but I wouldn't put them with anything that would actually try to fight them. I think fighting lowers their happiness more than most species too. I would put them with angelfish before aggressive central Americans.

I kept severums, a starry night, a green terror, and a pair of choclate cichlids together in my 300(which is only 6 feet long sadly). The green terror and starry nights fought a fair bit so I removed both although I have been told my green terror was an unusually aggressive example of the species. I never tried another, and the tank was peaceful after their removal. This set-up works for other people though so maybe I was unlucky.

It sounds like you don't want a peaceful set-up though.

I have seen some tanks with a Vieja combined with some of the smaller central american cichlids like firemouths and convicts. I think those set-ups look nice and your tank is the correct size for it.

The classic green terror+jack dempsey+ assorted smaller central american cichlids is also an option. One of the more common set-ups for 125 gallon tanks too so a lot of experience to draw on if that is of interest to you.

I would avoid Cubans, seems all they do is give people trouble. Good tank mates for them include sand, rocks, and water.

If you really want a "gladiator tank" you should look into african cichlids, 125 gallons gives you a lot of options for them.

 

[Cal Amari]

You realize most gladiators lived in terrible conditions and died bloody violent deaths for the entertainment of greedy gluttonous men who were born to better conditions? If that's what you're going for you've got a good start.

 

[Murrayjane]

I don't want to get into the water hardness debate, but with these captive bred fish it is not that serious in my opinion. I breed angelfish in hard water without issue, and have had no problems with my severums. I do shy away from wild caught low PH fish like true parrots though.

Anyway the Severum is definitely not a cichlid dither, they are too big and slow for that. Some cichlids will leave them alone because of their size, but I wouldn't put them with anything that would actually try to fight them. I think fighting lowers their happiness more than most species too. I would put them with angelfish before aggressive central Americans.

I kept severums, a starry night, a green terror, and a pair of choclate cichlids together in my 300(which is only 6 feet long sadly). The green terror and starry nights fought a fair bit so I removed both although I have been told my green terror was an unusually aggressive example of the species. I never tried another, and the tank was peaceful after their removal. This set-up works for other people though so maybe I was unlucky.

It sounds like you don't want a peaceful set-up though.

I have seen some tanks with a Vieja combined with some of the smaller central american cichlids like firemouths and convicts. I think those set-ups look nice and your tank is the correct size for it.

The classic green terror+jack dempsey+ assorted smaller central american cichlids is also an option. One of the more common set-ups for 125 gallon tanks too so a lot of experience to draw on if that is of interest to you.

I would avoid Cubans, seems all they do is give people trouble. Good tank mates for them include sand, rocks, and water.

If you really want a "gladiator tank" you should look into african cichlids, 125 gallons gives you a lot of options for them.

I appreciate this constructive response. The Cubans will be removed and rehomed and I’ll reevaluate the stock to try and make it a little less intense in the long run and create more of a temperamental balance. I recognize that many people have different opinions on mixing aggressive cichlids and many don’t learn from fatal mistakes, which is why I am being proactive to develop a stock list that is workable vs doomed.

 

[Murrayjane]

I have kept a number of the hard water high pH (pH 8ish)water parameter species (Cuban, Vieja) but not togther with the soft water low (pH 4 to 6) types, such as Heros, or other Amazonian S Americans, and some neutral water parameter type cichlids(Geophagus braziliensus, Paratilapia species). but
To me, just an adult pair of Nanadopsis tetracanthus mxed out a 125 by themselves.
View attachment 1575867
Paratilapia can also be aggresive
I kept a quartet in a 130 gal, with no other cichlids
View attachment 1575868
1 male and 3 females
Viejas can a little more forgiving, but also require real space or conflicts arise.
the Geo braziliensus clade work well until maturity and spawn, then as a pair will fend of anything to the death , an interloper especially even something much larger, but especially if it had similar irredecent markings is at risque
View attachment 1575869
Cichlids find safety in numbers when young, but once maturity sets in, it can be carnage in a tank as small as a 125 (or 6 ft tank)
the size area these cichlids come from in nature makes a 6 ft/125 gal tank, seem like a tiny culvert, in comparison.
View attachment 1575870View attachment 1575871View attachment 1575872
I coolect cichlids in nature, the above pics are where I find them, sometimes only two species to a river.

Appreciate this response, I’ll have to either provide more space or break some of them out into more dedicated setups. I’ll confess that I do chuckle at some of the experienced comments on this thread talking about keeping the fish in poorly setup/aggressive conditions when others go catching something out of their true environment and stick them in a glass aquarium, this seems far more subject to criticism. For me it’s to each their own, people go fishing, catch, eat, or release and consequentially injure cichlids / fish all the time, I’d say by posting this thread a person is at least trying to make a certain setup work and understand what could work vs just letting carnage unfold.

 

[Murrayjane]

Slightly different thread title...different username...small variations in stocking list...but, all in all, this thread appears on an almost daily basis. Tiresome.

duanes usually needs to correct the sometimes laughable mismatches of species with regard to water conditions. Apparently the keepers of Bad Ass Fishes rarely ever consider subtleties like pH, hardness, etc...but they always know a list of aggressive fish species that simply must be jammed together into a too-small tank in an attempt to create a knife-edge uneasy truce...for reasons that remain a mystery to many folk, myself included.

The fish tend to be purchased at a smallish size, sometimes with the proviso that some will be re-homed as they grow and their bad-assedness becomes an issue. Often these tanks will work after a fashion, for awhile, until somebody grows up and the hormones take hold. Then we sometimes hear that such-and-such fish got a little beat up last night, so tonight when I get home from work I might think about maybe removing him...except when the hopeful fishkeeper gets home from work, he finds that the problem has been solved for him, and often a couple more have appeared. Or sometimes, we never hear from the poster again.

People discouraging these threads are basically encouraging bad decision making. Hobbyists post these threads looking for experienced help, some listen to that help such as myself, others don’t. I’ve made similar setups work for many years without death and distraction, but I’ll confess that some of these cichlids in question I simply haven’t had before, so hence the proactive advice request.

 

[Murrayjane]

You realize most gladiators lived in terrible conditions and died bloody violent deaths for the entertainment of greedy gluttonous men who were born to better conditions? If that's what you're going for you've got a good start.

I do realize what the name of the tank stands for, go look up @cichlidcharmer on YouTube, he refers to all of his tanks as different prisons, refers to tank mates as inmates or cellmates. He’s got 45+ years of experience. You do realize you are on Monster Fish Keepers and people often mix aggressive cichlids together, so yes, in a sense, I’m going to that while still holding a sense of compassion to try and make it actually work and not allow severe injuries nor fatalities.

 

[Cal Amari]

Sorry I was a little bored when I posted that, and I hope you the best of luck with this tank. I avoid most you tube cichlid channels because there's just as many that post tank of doom, or thunderdome tanks that truly don't care if it's a bloodbath, or want to see who comes out on top after some aquatic MMA battle Royale. There are some beautiful cichlids that are aggressive that I would still enjoy keeping had I the accommodations, I don't judge you for keeping these fish. I wish you success and peace in your efforts.