13" wc Atabapo I - whats wrong w/them???

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martindale

Feeder Fish
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Sep 19, 2009
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One week ago I moved my Atabapo's from my 4x2x2 tank into my 6x2x2 tank. They havent eaten and have started acting different. They are darting around and appear to be trying to rub themselves against the sand. They have an obvious clear yet milky kinda shade that has come up on the top of both of their heads. The pictures are horrible but I noticed this yesterday and it was worse today when I got home this evening so I want to get the pictures to you guys fast. PLEASE HELP!!!!!!! If you know what this let me know asap. Thx! :confused::confused::confused::confused::confused::confused:

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HI David
Something in there is seriously adverse to their well being.

May be elevated dissolved minerals from limestone, dolomite, etc.
Have you checked pH and hardness compared to former tank?

Nitrogen cycle in check?

Was tank seal/glue redone prior to adding fish? Possibly some mildew resistant (non aquarium safe) silicone was used?

Do you get a shock when your hand is in the water of that tank? Ungrounded plugs (or often a power head) can produce stray electric current in tank. So can a broken heater.

The scraping is indicative of irritated gill membranes. Gills and eyes most sensitive and often first areas to show signs of water conditions that are not acceptable to a specific fish.

The excess mucus production is their bodies' way to attempt to protect itself from whatever is affecting them in that new tank.

If you can get them out and back into former tank while you figure out what's ailing them in new tank, that could be very helpful.
 
Intro any new fish lately? Diet?
 
Im moving them into original tank now. I finished turning my garage into a 5th room and have all 1100 gallons up and running and the 120 they were moved from is right next to them. I will move the Champsochromis out of the 120 and place the Atabapo back in the 120. Ok they are in the 120 again. WOW they are pissed off man!!!! They are not happy dude, but regardless they are in there. I didnt treat them yesterday because I dont know whats going on. Should I salt, melafix, anything? Im testing water so give me a second yall.
 
I intruduced them into the 180 during a move into my new house. I basically turned the garage into a 5th room and made it my fish room. The air conditioning was a lenghty process so the water temp in the tank has fluctuated between 60 and 70 degrees. It has been at 70 degrees for the last 3 days. I dont have a heater in the tank. Xp4, Xp3, and a Aquaclear 110 provide filteration. Two Korelia 4 power fans run for 15 minutes four times daily for added circulation. Two airstones are powered by an AV-50 for airation. I have fed the Atabapo mostly krill w/an earthworm or two daily for variety and have done so for the past couple months. I offered the same diet after the move but they refused it all not eating a single bite. The 180 had 20 Cyphotilapia Gibberosa Moba with dakota black(black beauty) sand as a substrate and tree bark boulder rock. I left the black sand in and removed the Moba and rocks. I moved the wood from the 120 w/the fish into the 180 and added a lot more of the same wood. I also moved the two red hooks w/the Atabapo and didnt add any additional fish. Water parameters in the 180 are as follows: ammonia 0ppm, nitrite 0ppm, nitrate between 5.0 and 10ppm, ph 7.8-8.0, temp 70 degrees. Water parameters in the 120 are as follows: ammonia 0.25ppm, nitrite 0ppm, nitrate 5.0ppm, ph 7.8-8.0, temp 71 degrees. I moved the Atabapo back into the empty 120 as suggested and moved the Champsochromis caeruleus out of the 120 and into a 125. The milky whitish areas on the head and top of body have darkened up and are a smoky grayish color. I hope these descriptions help form a decent picture. Pls keep the questions and info coming I need all the help I can get. These are AMAZING fish and deserve to be healthy. Thank you very much!!!!!
 
Getting that temp up ASAP is critically important and may in fact be the bulk of your problem. Amazonian fish, for the most part, do not like anything below 74-76 degrees... and even that's pushing it. I've had heaters go out on occasion and what you describe is exactly what I saw. Fish lying on the bottom, not eating, eyes cloud up, scratching on the substrate. In addition to the problems that the low temps can cause directly, there are many secondary causes due to a lowered immune reaction such as bacterial infections or even parasites that the lowered temp could exacerbate.

Even though the fish have been OK up until now at the lower temps, the added stress of being moved around and placed in a foreign environment was enough to push them over the edge.

I'd get the temp up to a minimum of 78, I'd actually prefer 82 with these fish, and at least make sure they are eating. Once the fish stop eating it becomes exponentially more difficult to "cure them" whatever the ailment may be. You might find that the elevated temp solves everything.

I'd also perform a large water change regardless of your water parameters because as Jeff mentioned, it could be some sort of contaminant that is causing the gill membrane irritation. If directly after the water change the fish perk up substantially you might want to consider the contaminant idea very seriously.

Regarding treatment, I like to eliminate one possibility at a time as opposed to the shotgun treatment where you do everything at once. Raising the temp, performing a water change and adding 2-3 different chemicals/meds/treatments all at the same time makes it very difficult to know what exactly was the issue.

Good luck. Nothing worse than watching a prized specimen slowly wilt away. :(
 
Thank you VERY much for your input. I love all of my fish but these Atabapo are very special. I took an option day at work and will be here all day watching the progress and checking the site for opinions and updates. Im headed up to a LFS to buy a heat source. I dont run heaters in my tanks so I have no experience can you give me some advice on what "to do" and what "not to do"?
 
martindale;3780621; said:
Thank you VERY much for your input. I love all of my fish but these Atabapo are very special. I took an option day at work and will be here all day watching the progress and checking the site for opinions and updates. Im headed up to a LFS to buy a heat source. I dont run heaters in my tanks so I have no experience can you give me some advice on what "to do" and what "not to do"?

Don't raise the temp too fast. That can cause problems in and of itself. I'd shoot for maybe 1-2 degrees every 4-6 hours. Starting at 70° it should be at least tomorrow evening before you hit the the 80° mark. As the water warms you should see a marked difference in activity level. Watch carefully for any signs of ich. It wouldn't be a bad idea to have some ich med on hand just in case. My preference is QuickCure but I'm sure you'll get all sorts of varying advice on this subject.

If you can afford it, get 2 heaters instead of one. This will give you better overall heat distribution as well as a redundant system so that if one heater goes bad you still have one that is working and your temp doesn't crash.

Try and get the largest heaters possible. At a minimum I'd get a 250 watt but for the size tank you have 300-400 would be even better. The higher the wattage the less time that it/they will be running. A 250 would likely be on continuously in a tank as large as yours.

Try and get heaters that are shatterproof or that have some sort of guard. In tanks with large rambunctious fish, heaters tend to get broken. Marineland makes a good, reliable heater that is shatterproof. I want to say it is called a Stealth heater. There are also titanium bodied heaters available but I believe they are quite pricey. If you have a sump to place the heaters in this is not a worry. I have found that heaters in sumps are not nearly as effective or efficient at keeping the water warm however.

One last caveat to having warmer water... the fish will most definitely be more active and colorful. You'll need to feed more hence watch your water parameters more. Also, I have had issue with fish that got along well at lower temps suddenly become more aggressive when the heat was elevated. Not that you'll have this issue but it is worth noting and watching carefully for.

Good luck and keep us posted!!
 
i agree with scat. definitely need to get the temperature up in your tank. i keep all my pikes at around 80 degrees.

i also noticed that your pH is high. any idea what the general hardness and carbonate hardness is? anyone have any thoughts on high pH and high hardness affecting pikes health? ive attributed that to some problems in the past.
 
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