13" wc Atabapo I - whats wrong w/them???

  • We are currently upgrading MFK. thanks! -neo
its_an_obsession;3781196; said:
i agree with scat. definitely need to get the temperature up in your tank. i keep all my pikes at around 80 degrees.

i also noticed that your pH is high. any idea what the general hardness and carbonate hardness is? anyone have any thoughts on high pH and high hardness affecting pikes health? ive attributed that to some problems in the past.
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I've rasied some very nice pikes in hard, alkaline water so I don't think it is hyper-critical but, I have noticed that in hard water the pikes seem to be much more susceptible to LLE. Certain pikes such as Cr. sp. "Atabapo" seem to develop LLE regardless of what their fed or how well they are maintained. I want to get some of these fish that already have LLE and see what I could do with them if kept in very soft water.

If you think about it, a majority of fish that are known for being extremely likely to develop LLE come from habitats with very soft water; discus, many Crenicichla species, Astronotus sp., Uaru fernandezyepezi, Hoplarchus, etc. I suspect that the high levels of disolved solids in the water irritate the thin membrane of skin that covers the receptor pores along the LE much like a rash. Left unchecked the skin eventually errodes away. Diet may have a little bit to do with it as well as poor water quality but I've seen too many fish that are well taken care of that still develop LLE to place blame solely on these reasons.

When's the last time you saw a Rift Lake Cichlid or a Central American Cichlid with LLE? Rarely if ever! I've seen a few but all were being housed in horrid conditions.

I also firmly believe that many of the issues encountered with breeding these soft water species is also directly related to the hardness of the water.
 
I also firmly believe that many of the issues encountered with breeding these soft water species is also directly related to the hardness of the water.
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I would agree with this completely, I have had MANY issues with hatch rates on SA cichlids, especially Uaru and Pikes. As soon as I cut my water with RO, the hatch goes up, most of the time, there were 0% hatch when the water was too hard. The theory is that the minerals in the water are absorbed by the egg's membrane, making it too tough for the embryo to break free.

I would assume that there is something to the theory of the LLE/HITH that is prominent with many SA cichlids.
 
Wow!!! That is a chilly tank!!! I've got my tanks at a comfortable 86degrees right now, although it does occasionally push 88degrees. Definitely raise that temp up like Marc was saying.

It appears everything that can be checked or changed has been mentioned. Plenty of sound advice. :)

How are they doing now? Any improvement?

One question though, why did you move them if they were doing so well in that tank already? That tank they were in was just about an ideal tank for them. :)
 
They had a growing spurt and grew a little over an inch since I acquired them. I moved them from the 4x2x2 tank to the 6x2x2 tank to give them a little more room. Ya, the temp stayed at 74 degrees in the former fish room. During the week of my move it got down to 17 degrees here in S.A. and substantially brought down the temp in my new fish room. It has become apparent that the temperature drop is likely to be a contributing factor in their illness. I on a daily average spend a lot of time w/my fish. Im a UPS driver, and a father of 3 girls, those two things combined outside of Christmas Im busy but yet I always have time for the hobby. You throw in the fact that I dont get home til around 11pm during the Christmas season, had to move into a new house and fully eqiuip my new garage for a fish room I cant help but believe that if I had spent more time watching them that I could have caught this earlier and kept them alive. Wow, it happened so quick. I stayed with them til around 4am, woke up at 7am, took the day off from work and still I couldnt help them. I feel horrible. I dont know what else to say. Watching them "slowly" go was painfull. :cry::cry::cry: I have been in the hobby for almost 7 years and I have collected and bred a wide variety of fish. During that time I have lost a few fish to aggression but never to disease. Loosing a fish never felt good but this is pure HEARTBREAK!!!!!!!!!! What a very bad day this has been. Thank you very much for your wiilingness to share your years of experience and priceless knowledge with me.
 
sorry for you loss man, bad times. i always have at least one big giant heater available for emergencies if one goes out in another tank, best of luck man
 
Man, that bites. I've been there done that several times with my pikes. Sat for two hours once holding my female strigata infront of a power head in a final desperate attempt to save her. It never gets easier. :(

You've just been hit. The question is, are you going to pick yourself back up and try again, or let it keep you on the ground?
 
Sorry for your loss.

A recommendation... if your tanks are all in the garage, you may be able to forgo tank heaters and instead employ gas space heaters. I insulated the heck out of a nearly 8000 sq/ft building and can properly and inexpensively heat all 125 of my tanks off of gas wall-mount heaters. An added bonus is that the heaters cut down on the humidity of the building, too.
 
The garage is 400 square feet. I insulated everything but the floor with 97% effeceint radiant barrier made by Radiant Guard. Second I carpeted the floor. Third I checked the BTU on the heater and the toneage on the a/c unit and decided that it could handle the additional pull and ran a 8" duct from the main and split that into two 6" ducts and ran two 4" receptacles of each of the 6" ducts. I installed a 12x12 return air vent to insure proper air circulation and do away with the heavy moisture issue. I was short on power supply and kicking the breakers so I installed 5 four way plugs and 3 additional 20 amp breakers. In order to keep from opening the door and letting the cold air pour in during water changes I ran a water line in and t'd it to three different lines directly above my 3 largest tanks. Each line has its own shut off so I can independently start and stop the water to each change. Draining the water was made simple by cutting a hole thru the outside wall at a 30 degree angle every six feet and running a 1.5" cpvc pipe thru it. I simply run my pythons through the hole and it drains outside and flows through the pvc I ran next to the driveway. The 1.5" cpvc firmly holds 3 pythons and you dont have to worry about them falling back inside while moving the hose from tank to tank. I bought six more pythons and with the 3 water lines to my larger tanks my water change time is nothing compared to what it was and I have added around 300 additional gallons. Basically the garage is now a 5th room in the house. I did purchase a 1500 watt convection room heater thats made as a suplemental heat source and it helped quite a bit. I have 3 thermometers around the room at different heights in attempt to keep a somewhat accurate reading. The first challenge I had was that I had 3 days to complete my move and renovations. The 2nd was completely unexpected and San Antonio hit 17 degrees right in the middle of my move. All these factors drastically affected my ability to keep my fish warm. I could have purchased a portable 14,000 BTU a/c unit for around $350 and had no worries but needless to say with Christmas and all the expenses of the move and renovations I was flat broke. The whole thing had already given me an enormous headache and then WHAM!!!, my Atabapo looked like something was wrong, and you know the rest of the story. I know it was a long response and explanation but at least you know where I was coming from.
Hey Oddball that sounds kick !@#. Exactly what kind of heat source do you have and can you give me both some specs as well as telling me if its an a/c unit with a heat strip? I appreciate all the info guys!!!! :popcorn:
 
I use 2 55k BTU direct-vent counterflow wall furnaces made by Empire Comfort Systems. I don't really need 2 but, one acts as a backup. Summer cooling is done with a Trane heat pump. Condensate from the heat pump (and from roof rain runoff) is collected in an outdoor vented cistern and the water is used to irrigate the garden.
 
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