180 gal on 1st floor

  • We are currently upgrading MFK. thanks! -neo
skjl47 said:
Hello; In a previous post the OP stated that he looked and found the joists to be running parallel. Even being near an outside wall it is generally considered to be stronger if the joists are perpendicular to he long axiss of a large tank.

It would seem that a year is plenty of time for things to go wrong if the 180 indeed does turn out to be too much of a load. What am I missing?
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Houses with the parallel joists have a stronger sub floor. It is required by building code for a sub floor to be installed for parrallel joists. They run there joists on 24" centers with 2x6 blocking between joists. It is also possible there is 1/2 inch ply wood above the the sub floor substituting for the 2x6 blocking. This was commonly seen in older houses. So once again I don't see the issue here. The floor is more than strong enough to support the tank and is just as strong if not stronger than your typical perpendicular joists. I do agree though attempting to sell the house having a fish tank up may turn people off you may want to contact your agent and ask them if it should stay or go for walk throughs.
 
fatboy8 said:
Houses with the parallel joists have a stronger sub floor. It is required by building code for a sub floor to be installed for parrallel joists. They run there joists on 24" centers with 2x6 blocking between joists. It is also possible there is 1/2 inch ply wood above the the sub floor substituting for the 2x6 blocking. This was commonly seen in older houses. So once again I don't see the issue here. The floor is more than strong enough to support the tank and is just as strong if not stronger than your typical perpendicular joists. I do agree though attempting to sell the house having a fish tank up may turn people off you may want to contact your agent and ask them if it should stay or go for walk throughs.
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Hello; This is confusing relative to what I understand about houses with floor joists.

First; All the joists will be parallel to two of the outside walls and at the same time be perpendicular to the other two outside walls. So the issue when placing a large tank is how the long axis of the tank runs in relation to the joists.

Along two of the outside walls the tank axis wil be running parallel to the joists. This means few joists are directly under the tank. This also usually means that the tank weight will be further toward the middle of the joists. Both of these issues will compromise the ability of the floor to carry a heavy static weight.

In the same house two outside walls will have perpendicular joists. A large tank placed along one of these walls will have more joists directly under it and thus spreading the load more. The tank load will also usually be much closer to the ends of the joists where the joists are supported on the wall sill.

My home, for example, has joists on 16 inch centers using dimensional lumber of 2 x10. Newer homes can have 24 inch centers and may have engineered joists. Either floor can be strong depending on a number of factors including blocking. Either floor can also be compromised by a number of things. I have no way of knowing the actual condition of the OP's floor structure as I have not actually had a look see. I cannot make the assumption that a particular floor is strong or weak from general knowledge of codes.

Thwere are also some common misconceptions about floor load capacity. Here is the web address of an article that talks about the issue.
http://badmanstropicalfish.com/articles/article28.html
 
skjl47 said:
Hello; This is confusing relative to what I understand about houses with floor joists.

First; All the joists will be parallel to two of the outside walls and at the same time be perpendicular to the other two outside walls. So the issue when placing a large tank is how the long axis of the tank runs in relation to the joists.

Along two of the outside walls the tank axis wil be running parallel to the joists. This means few joists are directly under the tank. This also usually means that the tank weight will be further toward the middle of the joists. Both of these issues will compromise the ability of the floor to carry a heavy static weight.

In the same house two outside walls will have perpendicular joists. A large tank placed along one of these walls will have more joists directly under it and thus spreading the load more. The tank load will also usually be much closer to the ends of the joists where the joists are supported on the wall sill.

My home, for example, has joists on 16 inch centers using dimensional lumber of 2 x10. Newer homes can have 24 inch centers and may have engineered joists. Either floor can be strong depending on a number of factors including blocking. Either floor can also be compromised by a number of things. I have no way of knowing the actual condition of the OP's floor structure as I have not actually had a look see. I cannot make the assumption that a particular floor is strong or weak from general knowledge of codes.

Thwere are also some common misconceptions about floor load capacity. Here is the web address of an article that talks about the issue.
http://badmanstropicalfish.com/articles/article28.html
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I understand where the confusion can come in but there are a lot of factors that go into this between wood species, placement, joist size and spacing. It can be calculated once everything is figured out but only adding 240lbs to the dead load on the space given I do not see a huge problem with. The tank will be spaning most likely three joist with one being the outside load bearing wall. Taking placement into effect the possibility of the tank spanning the middle of the joist is a possibility. On that depending on the previous variabled and how the OP feels they can either double or triple the joist under it which would double or triple the load weight compacity. Or to completly solve the problem change the tank placement to a wall with perpendicular joist. Now if this tank was not on a load bearing wall I would not reccomend it at all.
 
fatboy8 said:
I understand where the confusion can come in but there are a lot of factors that go into this between wood species, placement, joist size and spacing. It can be calculated once everything is figured out but only adding 240lbs to the dead load on the space given I do not see a huge problem with. The tank will be spaning most likely three joist with one being the outside load bearing wall. Taking placement into effect the possibility of the tank spanning the middle of the joist is a possibility. On that depending on the previous variabled and how the OP feels they can either double or triple the joist under it which would double or triple the load weight compacity. Or to completly solve the problem change the tank placement to a wall with perpendicular joist. Now if this tank was not on a load bearing wall I would not reccomend it at all.
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Hello; I generally consider large tanks to beround 10 to 12 pounds per gallon with the stand, substrate and other equipment. That puts a 180 gallon tank at 1,800 to 2,160 pounds. Add to this what other furniture and stuff may be a static load. I have been considering the total load and not just the additional 240 pounds. Not saying the floor cannot hold the weight. These threads show up from time to time and those of us not on the scene are just guessing. I prefer to guess on the side of caution and point to the down side of taking such chances.

I may not be picturing it correctly. I think a tank placed next to a wall over parallel joists will not be supported by the wall it is next to, but by the walls at the ends of the joists unless the tank is placed close in a corner of the room. Also the width of the tank will determine how many joists it wil rest on. With joists on 16 inch centers a 32 inch wide tank could hit two joists, not sure about three. On 24 inch centers it might directly be on only one.

In this case I believe the OP said the basement is already finished. To sister extra joists or add more bracing might mean tearing out the finished material. A lot of work to keep a tank for about a year.
 
Thanks guys im gonna err on the side of caution and upgrade when i move or put the new tank in tbe basement.

I really do appreciate the responses
 
Thanks guys im gonna err on the side of caution and upgrade when i move or put the new tank in tbe basement.

I really do appreciate the responses
 
Thanks man. Im gonna see how things go in the next few months i really would hate moving these guys into my basement. Im gonna try and put the upgrade off as long as possible
 
I agree that waiting to set it up until the move is over, is a good idea, I believe tearing down, moving and setting up can be the time most tanks end up stress cracked, unless very careful.
That said, I have 1500 gallons not counting the weight of tanks spread out on my first floor.
Because my house was built in the 1870s, the joists are 16", yet I still have 4 floor jacks under the heaviest tanks just to be safe.
My biggest problem has been overflowing them when refilling after water changes, but of course, that's operator error.
 
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