20 gallon sump better then two fluval 404's?

[Colin0714]

Not to hijack my own thread or anything...... quitest pump anyone?

 

[Conner]

I see sumps are loaded with scrubbies, bioballs and a heck of a lot filtersocks/filter floss/50 micron things. and scrubbies and the others (bar bioballs) would be used as mechanical (scrubbies both). I wouldn't put any of those in my canister, except for maybe filterfloss. If I'm wrong enlighten me.

Scrubbies and bioballs are SOLELY for biological filtration. They may do some mechanical filtration, but only if you don't have a filter pad prior to them, and that is not what they are intended for. That is why there is a micron filter sock or pad in place before the scrubbies/bioballs.

If you're talking about biological media capacity (i.e. biological filtration) a 20g tank is likely to have considerably more capacity than even 2 canister filters, simply due to the volume available.

If you're looking more for water polishing and mechanical filtration, then go with a canister filter.

 

[Conner]

The pumps I use in my 125g tank are Quiet One 4000's. They are extremely quiet (I actually cannot here them running, especially with the small amount of waterfall noise from my sump). They are pretty good pumps, with 1017gph each, and I think they use about 50w of power. They cost anywhere from $50-75 each online, depending on where you purchase them. I use two simply to have a backup in case one of them fails for some reason.

 

[Jgray152]

well in a canister you have anaerobic(?) beneficial bacteria
and in a sump you have aerobic beneficial bacteria.

Incorrect, both have the same bacteria.

and with a canister imo you'd get much more bio room for two canisters then a 20 gal sump.

If you build it right, you can get way more than 2 404s. You could get roughly over 20--29 liters of bio media in a 20 gallon sump compaired to the Hagen Fluval 404s which, my best guess would say they only hold roughly 2-3 liters each.

yes, but what I meant was you'd find more anaerobic BB in a canister.

Anaerobic bacteria thrive in oxygen depleted environments. The way to get this in our situations is to have an extremly low flow which will then cultivate aerobic bacteria in the beginning of the media and as the water passes through, the oxygen gets consumed, to which makes a perfect environment for anaerobic bacteria.

The flow rates through canister filters does not allow the water to be completly deprived of oxygen which means you won't find any anaerobic bacteria thriving in a canister, only aerobic. Otherwise, canister filter owners wouldn't need to worry about Nitrates as anaerobic bacteria consume nitrates over a process to which convertes nitrates back in nitrites and eventually nitrogen gas.

It seems you are slightly confused as to what conditions anaerobic bacteria thrive in. The Oxygen Depleted parts is very important, if there is any oxygen at all, there won't be any anaerobic bacteria, well I think there is a small threshold as to a fraction of oxygen to which they will still thrive.

Canister and Sump filters house the same bacteria.

To the OP, a 20 gallon sump, if designed right, can out filter 2 Fluval 404s any day of the week. The 404s will be quieter and take up much less space but the 20 gallon can house more bio media, have more mechanical surface area and could have a higher flow rate, with a little bit of noise.

 

[Jgray152]

I don't think so? well if I had a sump I'd set it up for water polishing. imo, just the way I see it, I see sumps are loaded with scrubbies, bioballs and a heck of a lot filtersocks/filter floss/50 micron things. and scrubbies and the others (bar bioballs) would be used as mechanical (scrubbies both). I wouldn't put any of those in my canister, except for maybe filterfloss. If I'm wrong enlighten me.

Both canisters and sumps can filter the water perfectly fine. It all depends on how you set them up but if you were to do a test between a canister and sump with similar surface areas and flow rates, you would probubly notice both filter mechanically roughly the same.

Scrubbies could be used as mechanical filtration but, man, they would be a PITA to clean I think. You would be better off with some 10ppi filter foam. Also, scrubbies don't have a whole lot of surface area per volume compaired to others bio medias out there.

I run filter floss and micron pads in my canisters. I also run Bio Bale in my Fx5 which is a wet/dry bio media. Canister usually use ceramic media as its surface are tops most per volume.

 

[billylee]

I have a 20g sump w/ 120 scrubbies on my 125g.
I think it'll be pretty tough to fit 120 scrubbies in 2 x 404s.

 

[likestofish]

The bonus with sumps is that more area for bb more filter material and also super oxygentation if you use drip trays.

 

[Liam]

Jgray, thanks for that. That has cleared alot of stuff up in my head, lol. yes,I was confused.