2000G pond and 830G sump (almost)

[The1and only]

Why not just do a surface skimmer on the end of the pond and have it flow in to the sump?

 

[ShadowR1]

Hi Lil_Stinker,

Thanks for the revised drawings and your time.
Here are a few questions that I have.

1)The pond water level is going to be around (3’ 6” to 3’ 8” )in the pond.

1st chamber water level is 3’ 4”
2nd chamber water level is 3’
3rd chamber water level is 2’ 8”
4th chamber water level is 2’ 4”

Is a 4" step down from each chamber wall height to the next is suffice ?


2) What is the pond wall thickness that I need ? Is 6” thick with rebar and concrete all round is enough to withstand the weight of the water ?
( All four side of the wall and the bottom)

2)What is the elevation of the chamber wall needed ( A )? I am thinking a 2”. And what is the distance in ( B ) 1” ?

Please bear with me on this draft as the final drawings is on the way very soon.

Thanks a mill.

Here are some thoughts..

Have the water flowing down in all chambers, extending the pipe to above the brush (pipe extension optional)

Remove the wall between the heater/UV & pump areas no real need for that.

Lower each chambers divider in progression, allowing gravity to work, leave the last wall (bio to pump/heater) high enough to have some water in the bio chamber, even if the pump area runs dry for any reason.

Have the discharge pipes either above water level or with an check valve or siphon break to prevent back flow in event of pump failure. (keeps water going in one direction)

The red area is theoretical water levels.

OK, now I am happy with "your" design

 

[ShadowR1]

Why not just do a surface skimmer on the end of the pond and have it flow in to the sump?

Hi there,

There will be a surface skimmer at the end of the pond near to the sump. Its still a draft and the final detail drawings is on the way.

Thanks.

 

[mrunlucky07]

1st chamber water level is 3’ 4”
2nd chamber water level is 3’
3rd chamber water level is 2’ 8”
4th chamber water level is 2’ 4”

Is a 4" step down from each chamber wall height to the next is suffice ?

Generally in ponds people go with gravity feed rather than sumps, that way you can fully utilize the entire volume of the filter area without any wasted space. With gravity feed you do not need any level difference between chambers.

Some things to think about, cleaning brushes and jap mat is a pain. I use 100 brushes and 50 24" round matt layers as part of my pond filter. I will probably replace them with other methods in the near future. Brushes clean easily enough once out of the chamber, but they will drop half the gunk when you remove them and are difficult to clean without becoming covered in poo yourself. You will want be sure to include a drain in the chamber. The mats need regular maintence unless the water is well prefiltered, and taking them all out and cleaning individually is very time consuming.

Since your pond is indoors the common design is to use either one or two bottom drains rather than a skimmer. Returns can go in the pond walls to direct the detrius towards the drains. The bottom drains will catch stuff as it settles. If the drains are aerated the rising bubbles draw water and debris towards the drain.

The first filter chamber is used as a settling chamber with no media. The poo settles to the bottom and you don't need to worry about cleaning it off media and bio capaciy to process it. You can use a pump or drain in the settlement chamber to drain the debris as it collects before it ever turns to nitrites or nitrates. Second chambers are often fluidized beds of kaldness or k1. An air diffuser is used on the bottom to bounce around the k1. It is well aerated and does not collect detrius like matting. Third chamber would be your fines filter and then on to the pump. UV does not need a chamber and an external pump does not need a chamber, is not much more investment initially, will last longer, and will generally pay for themselves quickly in energy savings.

There are always many ways to something, but if you can reduce tedious maintenance chores it will give you that much more time to enjoy your pond.

Be sure to keep us updated!

 

[Lil_Stinker]

Hi Lil_Stinker,

Thanks for the revised drawings and your time.
Here are a few questions that I have.

1)The pond water level is going to be around (3’ 6” to 3’ 8” )in the pond.

1st chamber water level is 3’ 4”
2nd chamber water level is 3’
3rd chamber water level is 2’ 8”
4th chamber water level is 2’ 4”

Is a 4" step down from each chamber wall height to the next is suffice ?


2) What is the pond wall thickness that I need ? Is 6” thick with rebar and concrete all round is enough to withstand the weight of the water ?
( All four side of the wall and the bottom)

2)What is the elevation of the chamber wall needed ( A )? I am thinking a 2”. And what is the distance in ( B ) 1” ?

Please bear with me on this draft as the final drawings is on the way very soon.

Thanks a mill.

Chamber 1 will be about the same as the pond, it will essentialy be an overflow from the pond (unless you are doing a skimmer overflow in the pond.

I would only drop 2 inches from 2 to 3, then from the bio to the pump area drop a lot as you want much of the bio material out of the water (remember wet/dry)

as far as the underflow, 2 inches should be fine, and the same as the inter-chamber passage.

The pond walls, thats a question for another MFKer, the only pond I ever had was dirt & narural balance, no filters or water changes.

 

[ShadowR1]

Thanks for the idea mrunlucky07.

 

[ShadowR1]

Guys, there this problem I cant seem to get over. How do I control the water flow from the pond to the 1st chamber ? I cant seem to figure out a better way other than I will have to put it in the 1st chamber inlet where I'll have to go down 4' to adjust it, so does the discharge valve as I am planning to have one in every chamber floor for easier maintenance.

Thanks

 

[ShadowR1]

I would only drop 2 inches from 2 to 3, then from the bio to the pump area drop a lot as you want much of the bio material out of the water (remember wet/dry)

Noted, thanks Lil_Stinker

 

[Lil_Stinker]

Guys, there this problem I cant seem to get over. How do I control the water flow from the pond to the 1st chamber ? I cant seem to figure out a better way other than I will have to put it in the 1st chamber inlet where I'll have to go down 4' to adjust it, so does the discharge valve as I am planning to have one in every chamber floor for easier maintenance.

Thanks

You dont control that... the control is between 1 & 2, thats why I said 1 to 2 is essentialy the overflow from the tank, this wall will determine pond level

 

[Yanbbrox]

Generally in ponds people go with gravity feed rather than sumps, that way you can fully utilize the entire volume of the filter area without any wasted space. With gravity feed you do not need any level difference between chambers.

Some things to think about, cleaning brushes and jap mat is a pain. I use 100 brushes and 50 24" round matt layers as part of my pond filter. I will probably replace them with other methods in the near future. Brushes clean easily enough once out of the chamber, but they will drop half the gunk when you remove them and are difficult to clean without becoming covered in poo yourself. You will want be sure to include a drain in the chamber. The mats need regular maintence unless the water is well prefiltered, and taking them all out and cleaning individually is very time consuming.

Since your pond is indoors the common design is to use either one or two bottom drains rather than a skimmer. Returns can go in the pond walls to direct the detrius towards the drains. The bottom drains will catch stuff as it settles. If the drains are aerated the rising bubbles draw water and debris towards the drain.

The first filter chamber is used as a settling chamber with no media. The poo settles to the bottom and you don't need to worry about cleaning it off media and bio capaciy to process it. You can use a pump or drain in the settlement chamber to drain the debris as it collects before it ever turns to nitrites or nitrates. Second chambers are often fluidized beds of kaldness or k1. An air diffuser is used on the bottom to bounce around the k1. It is well aerated and does not collect detrius like matting. Third chamber would be your fines filter and then on to the pump. UV does not need a chamber and an external pump does not need a chamber, is not much more investment initially, will last longer, and will generally pay for themselves quickly in energy savings.

There are always many ways to something, but if you can reduce tedious maintenance chores it will give you that much more time to enjoy your pond.

Be sure to keep us updated!

That about sums it up, trust me, this guy knows what he's talking about.

Matting is great but a real pain to clean, as are brushes, a pre vortex chamber helps keep this down, but it is still a pain.

I'm changing my filtration system/adding to it next year but the one thing that won't be changed(but maybe moved) is the fluid K1 mentioned above and even though mine is diy it does the same job as dropping £1500 on a EA Nexus:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PULhyZmqWKo&feature=related
That one has just been started with the bio added to the media, not necessary with a slow stocking, normally the media is white.

I'll dig the link up to mine.

Good luck keep us posted