Why so much water changed? It just seems really excessive. That kind of system here would cost me $300 extra a month rather than a year.
260Gal Filtration questions
- Thread starter Lillee
- Start date
In my area I pay $0.82c per 1000 litres. 600 litres a day x 365 / 1000 * 82c = $180 a year. I think doubling that to $300 is not unrealistic.
Sorry but I am not here to debate the water change issue, but talk about filtration.
Jack Watley of Watley Discus and famed author once did an experiment on Discus where he put a gorup of the same spawn into a 1 gal tank and another group into a 30 gal tank. Fed the same food, mainly beefheart mix. The only difference was that the 30 gal tank had 30% water change per day and the 1 gal tank had 8 x 100% water changes per day (that's right 800% water changes DAILY). After 4 weeks the discus in the 1gal tank were nearly double the size of the fish in the 30 gal tank.
The above is about the right data, but I am running from memory so don't quote me. It's close enough to what the experiment was all about. You draw your own conclusions...
Sorry but I am not here to debate the water change issue, but talk about filtration.
Jack Watley of Watley Discus and famed author once did an experiment on Discus where he put a gorup of the same spawn into a 1 gal tank and another group into a 30 gal tank. Fed the same food, mainly beefheart mix. The only difference was that the 30 gal tank had 30% water change per day and the 1 gal tank had 8 x 100% water changes per day (that's right 800% water changes DAILY). After 4 weeks the discus in the 1gal tank were nearly double the size of the fish in the 30 gal tank.
The above is about the right data, but I am running from memory so don't quote me. It's close enough to what the experiment was all about. You draw your own conclusions...
Burko;4285323; said:"And how is doing 20% WC every 8 hours = 45% WC daily????"
Good pick up. It should be 48.8%...
Yeah just to clarify it's a trickle system so I am not removing water out of the tank, I am overflowing it. It does not work out to be exactly 60% daily because there is some cross contamination. Using the calculator on previous page this works out to be roughly 45% (actually a bit less because you have to take the volume of the sump into account too).
The good thing about it is that I can scale it up or down with just a change of the pump timer in the storage tank. Reason for 20% is because that's all I have room for storage tank wise.
No problem. Here is the article: http://www.animalcomp.com/archives/fish/DiscusExpert.html
"Regarding water changes (the necessary practice of removing some of the water in a
fish tank and replacing it with clean water), Wattley described dual scenarios that
comprised an experiment he conducted. (This experiment, like many other, reveals the
lengths he goes to determine the best treatment for his discus.)
Wattley divided fry from the same spawn into two groups of 40 each. He kept one group
in a one-gallon tank with just an air stone and no filtration. The other group of fry was
housed in a 20-gallon tank with a sponge filter.
Both groups were fed the same food but were subjected to very different water changing
schedules.
The group in the crowded one gallon tank had 90 percent of their water changed seven or
eight times a day. The comfortable 20-gallon container had a 40-percent water change
once a day, which Wattley considers a normal rate for any hobbyist.
In four weeks, the fry in the one-gallon tank were almost double in size, with the most
visible growth spurt coming toward the end of the four-week period. This example
illustrates why Wattley feels water changes are so important."
"Regarding water changes (the necessary practice of removing some of the water in a
fish tank and replacing it with clean water), Wattley described dual scenarios that
comprised an experiment he conducted. (This experiment, like many other, reveals the
lengths he goes to determine the best treatment for his discus.)
Wattley divided fry from the same spawn into two groups of 40 each. He kept one group
in a one-gallon tank with just an air stone and no filtration. The other group of fry was
housed in a 20-gallon tank with a sponge filter.
Both groups were fed the same food but were subjected to very different water changing
schedules.
The group in the crowded one gallon tank had 90 percent of their water changed seven or
eight times a day. The comfortable 20-gallon container had a 40-percent water change
once a day, which Wattley considers a normal rate for any hobbyist.
In four weeks, the fry in the one-gallon tank were almost double in size, with the most
visible growth spurt coming toward the end of the four-week period. This example
illustrates why Wattley feels water changes are so important."
interesting study, but i don't know about the "40-percent water change
once a day, which Wattley considers a normal rate for any hobbyist." I know i'm not doing an 8g WC/day on my 20g. lol. you've got an elaborate set-up and a little more experience/dedication than just a normal hobbyist.
This sounds like it speeds up the growth of the discus from juvies to adults, but once adults, does the experiment talk about still doing the 45-50% WC daily?
as for the filtration, ya i think it could work with chaining the sumps. so you'd have it flow into 1 sump, then overflow into the 2nd sump, then back up into the tank (in series) or would u have two overflow boxes with each sump running independently (in parallel)?
if u running them in series, i could see you having to replace ur media more frequently in the first sump cause it'd be doing the most of the work, but i've never run a sump so i can't tell u for sure if this is true, but i would think running them in parallel would be more beneficial...
once a day, which Wattley considers a normal rate for any hobbyist." I know i'm not doing an 8g WC/day on my 20g. lol. you've got an elaborate set-up and a little more experience/dedication than just a normal hobbyist.
This sounds like it speeds up the growth of the discus from juvies to adults, but once adults, does the experiment talk about still doing the 45-50% WC daily?
as for the filtration, ya i think it could work with chaining the sumps. so you'd have it flow into 1 sump, then overflow into the 2nd sump, then back up into the tank (in series) or would u have two overflow boxes with each sump running independently (in parallel)?
if u running them in series, i could see you having to replace ur media more frequently in the first sump cause it'd be doing the most of the work, but i've never run a sump so i can't tell u for sure if this is true, but i would think running them in parallel would be more beneficial...
Once they are adults, you feed them alot less, once a day or even once every second day so waterchanges can be cut down. The water changes and article are specific to the Discus species, cannot comment for "All hobbyists"
It would have to be a sump in series
It would have to be a sump in series
Whiteboi_J;4286029; said:
large w/c daily is a common practice among discuss keepers due to the fragile nature of the fish. several mfker's do up to 90% daily for their discus setups. And for those that do, not all of them simply let it go down the drain, tank water is very useful in the garden. So while it may seem like alot for a w/c if you've got a yard, you'll easliy negate any waste.
Lillee;4284665; said:
I would love to see the plans!
If you need extra bio filtration ( of course depending on the space ) add an AC70 to each of the sump tanks. They will be hidden and you will get that extra bio filter. But honestly, the way it sounds, you'll have plenty of bio filtration already...
Serge
