Umm, hate to be the bearer of bad news. You're using mold and mildew resistant caulk which is toxic to aquatic animals. I understand you are painting over it, but any contact would be bad.
nolapete;3737815; said:Umm, hate to be the bearer of bad news. You're using mold and mildew resistant caulk which is toxic to aquatic animals. I understand you are painting over it, but any contact would be bad.
Fishermoe14;3737846; said:is there any actual proof of mold resistant caulk being bad for aquatic animals? seems like a few people have used it without any problems and it being "bad" is just something being passed around with no real proof..
Muni;3737907; said:I do not know of any direct cases where it has proven bad for fish. I know to avoid it when building glass tanks as it does not have the same adhesion strength of the older GE I that has no mold inhibitors.
Polysiloxanes with 3-(alkyldimethylammonio)propyl pendant groups were synthesized by quaternization of n-octyldimethylamine or n-dodecyldimethylamine with linear polysiloxanes containing 3-chloropropyl groups and/or 3-bromopropyl groups attached to silicon atoms. The precursor polysiloxanes, poly[(3-chloropropyl)methylsiloxane] homopolymer and various copolymers containing (3-halogenopropyl)methylsiloxane and dimethylsiloxane units, were obtained by equilibrium cationic polymerization of linear and cyclic siloxanes with (3-halogenopropyl)methylsiloxane units. The polysiloxanes bearing quaternary ammonium salts (QAS) showed bactericidal activity against bacteria such as Escherichia coli and Aeromonas hydrophila when incorporated in a polysiloxane network. The activity was retained after 66 days of immersion in water. The QAS-containing polysiloxanes are also active in aqueous solution. © 2000 John Wiley & Sons, Inc. J Appl Polym Sci 75: 1005-1012, 2000
Quaternary ammonium cations, also known as quats, are positively charged polyatomic ions of the structure NR4+ with R being alkyl groups. Unlike the ammonium ion (NH4+) and the primary, secondary, or tertiary ammonium cations, the quaternary ammonium cations are permanently charged, independent of the pH of their solution. Quaternary ammonium cations are synthesized by complete alkylation of ammonia or other amines. For possible synthesis route, see amines.
Quaternary ammonium salts or quaternary ammonium compounds (called quaternary amines in oilfield parlance) are salts of quaternary ammonium cations with an anion. They are used as disinfectants, surfactants, fabric softeners, and as antistatic agents (e.g. in shampoo). In liquid fabric softeners, the chloride salts are often used. In dryer anticling strips, the sulfate salts are often used. This is also a common ingredient in many spermicidal jellies.
In organic chemistry, quaternary ammonium salts are used as phase transfer catalysts for reactions involving immiscible solvent systems, such as the synthesis of dichlorocarbene with chloroform and sodium hydroxide.
The synthesis of this cation from ammonia is referred to as quaternization.
Through exhaustive methylation, or the Hofmann Elimination process, a quaternary ammonium iodide salt is formed. The alpha-carbon (relative to the nitrogen) is deprotonated once by a hydroxide anion from H2O and the electrons form an alkene. Subsequently, the electrons from the carbon-nitrogen bond are pushed onto the nitrogen. This sets up a tertiary amine as the leaving group.[1]
Large quaternary ammonium salts are typically obtained by alkylating tertiary amines. This process begins with a tertiary amine, to which is added a cationic alkyl group from an alkyl chloride. Typically one of the alkyl groups on the amine is larger than the rest.[2] The equation for this is:
RN(CH3)2 + ClR → N(CH3)2R2+ + Cl−
where R is the large alkyl group.
Certain long alkyl chain quaternary ammonium compounds are used as antimicrobials and disinfectants. Examples are benzalkonium chloride, benzethonium chloride, methylbenzethonium chloride, cetalkonium chloride, cetylpyridinium chloride, cetrimonium, cetrimide, dofanium chloride, tetraethylammonium bromide, didecyldimethylammonium chloride and domiphen bromide. Also good against fungi, amoeba, and enveloped viruses,[3] quats act by disrupting the cell membrane and proteins. Quats kill just about everything except endospores, Mycobacterium tuberculosis, lipid-containing viruses, and Pseudomonas spp. (some Pseudomonas spp. can even grow in solutions of quats, subsisting on them).
In contrast to phenolics, quats are not very effective in the presence of organic compounds. Yet quats are very effective in combination with phenols. Quats are deactivated by soaps, other anionic detergents, and cotton fibers.[4] Also, they are not recommended to be used in hard water. Effective levels are at 200 ppm.[5] They are effective at temperatures up to 212ºF.[6]
Along with sodium hypochlorite, quats are the primary chemicals used in foodservice industry as sanitizing agents.
If inhaled or in contact with the skin, quats may cause skin and respiratory irritation.[7] They are proposed to be the responsible group for causing anaphylactic reactions to occur to neuromuscular blocking drugs during general anaesthesia in surgery.[8]
^ www.organic-chemistry.org
^ Kosswig, K (2002): Surfactants Ullmanns Encyclopedia of Industrial Chemistry
^ Specific Antimicrobials, outline of lecture by Stephen T. Abedon, Ohio State U., URL accessed Dec 2008.
^ Specific Antimicrobials, outline of lecture by Stephen T. Abedon, Ohio State U., URL accessed Dec 2008.
^ The Use of Disinfectants In the Swine Industry, Mark G. Ladd, North Carolina State Univ., URL accessed Dec 2008.
^ Matching the Right Disinfectant to the Job, Michelle Gardner, URL accessed Dec 2008.
^ http://www.ehjournal.net/content/pdf/1476-069x-8-11.pdf
^ Harper, N. J. et al (2009): "Suspected anaphylactic reactions associated with anaesthesia", Anaesthesia, 64(2):199-211
Rivermud;3738494; said:So yes, silicone can have it's make-up modified to include quaternary ammonium salts. These have a direct anti-biological effect. Hard water may even make the effect stronger. There is the end of your so-called myth. There are toxins, they may or may not affect your fish, your mileage may vary.
With your planned application I don't foresee any issues.