450G Tank

[portabuddy]

yes i mean there is no way to have a 450 odd tank that can be garunteed to work with with an amount of silcone that is sensible(ie: looks neat and tidy).so you telling me your 500 has nothing on the corners? or edges? i doubt it. i bleive that soem frmaing is required. as no sealent will hold 2000kg pressure or 4000lbs(weight of a sedan) by itself let alone the glass weight

tanks that big are often made from 3/4-1" thick glass for sheer saftey. silicone has a high /Sq" holding strength, its not the corner joint that keeps the tank together, its the silicone in the joints between the glass pieces(the ----------3/64" thick bead).

The thicker the glass the more contack area for the sillicone to grab. IE a 3/4" joint is storong, but a 1" seam is stronger then that.

Have you ever wondered why bigger tanks habe bracing along the bottom???
- its to prevent blowouts from the front glass.

There are three such examples that i have seen of BIG glass tanks.

One, At dragon aquariume, it is 2000gallons all glass 1.5" thick glass braced on the sides bottom and top. NO METAL AND NOTHING on the outside "holding it together" it contains 20-30 fullsize arrows.

TWO, Bigals in brampton. its a 1000gallon ALLGLASS tank, 1" glass. with no bracing at all... containing one shark and a few gobies and other misc. fish. Held entierly together with sillicone.

THREE. another bigalls. 650gallon ALLGLASS tank. 1" glass. NO bracing at all. containing 20 gajjilion milawi cichlids.


so im sorry but if done right you dont need bracing...

Also keep inmind that these are within public reach so they need to be strong enough to last the *tap**tap**tap* "FISHY, FISHY, FISHY!" crap.

 

[mark93]

yes i mean there is no way to have a 450 odd tank that can be garunteed to work with with an amount of silcone that is sensible(ie: looks neat and tidy).so you telling me your 500 has nothing on the corners? or edges? i doubt it. i bleive that soem frmaing is required. as no sealent will hold 2000kg pressure or 4000lbs(weight of a sedan) by itself let alone the glass weight

you can doubt it all you like im talling you my tank has no metal bracing and has a sensible amount off silcone and looks looks neat and tidy and was made by some one who nos what they where doing so yes it can be garunteed to work.

 

[amehel0]

would he let you sue him if it ripped apart? if he wont that means that person cant aruntee. it doesnt matte how much thcker the glass goes you cant up the strenght of the glue! and i doubt that your tank can support a sedan. im sure it wouldnt be the glass that breaks but the silicone!

 

[sardesign]

would he let you sue him if it ripped apart? if he wont that means that person cant aruntee. it doesnt matte how much thcker the glass goes you cant up the strenght of the glue! and i doubt that your tank can support a sedan. im sure it wouldnt be the glass that breaks but the silicone!

silicone can surprise you... it's stronger than you think. we build some homes with some seriously large glazing systems with the only thing holding the glass in place is silicone. the wind pressure on some of these panes is tremendous. however, when you get to these sizes in an aquarium with the weight of the water, there are no guarantees [agreed?].

btw, bichir_first did this thread help you in figuring out how to tackle a tank this size [and reinforcing your home]?

 

[Lil_Stinker]

no seriously it did, it clearly sank, one beam is rated at 1 ton in the middle never mind at the end. it should have been the strongest place in the house other than the basement, the only theory i can think of why it sank was that either the plywood under it settled a bit or water somehow seeped in and weakened the floor even though there are no signs of water damage, or a combination of both
i wasnt trying to discoruage anyone, just make sure you know what your doing and dont under build the support

What were the I beams sitting on? I am guessing the sag is not the I's. Were they on a 2x4 wall frame?

let me give you some rough insight:

..... If you had a 450 gallon tank that weighed about 4500 lbs with glass + water + soil + stand and it covered a floor area of 24 sq ft [assuming 8 feet long and 3 feet wide] you will end up with 187.5 psf. the main idea here is to distribute the weight over as much floor area as possible so that more structural members are helping support the load.

My golly I weigh exactly 187.5 pounds & the combined area of my feet is .673 sq ft...

**********

To jump on the rental band wagon, most rental agreements limit the size & quantity of aquariums to 1 tank no bigger than 55g per floor.

so if..... (Ya know.)

 

[amehel0]

silicone can surprise you... it's stronger than you think. we build some homes with some seriously large glazing systems with the only thing holding the glass in place is silicone. the wind pressure on some of these panes is tremendous. however, when you get to these sizes in an aquarium with the weight of the water, there are no guarantees [agreed?].

btw, bichir_first did this thread help you in figuring out how to tackle a tank this size [and reinforcing your home]?

yeh and its setin sumthin like say if it was just peice of glass silicone and thenmaterial it woduldnt work but its set in a frame of sum sort. also i work building aquariums and i can tell you that we use bracing on the bottom so we can use less thick glass
the dude i work for has been building aquariums fer 25 years and he has ppl calling up fer tanks that size 3 times a day he says well i can make the glass thicker but i cant make the silicone stronger but he says i cnbuild it if u get a frame fer it. i wanted a 10x3x2.5 he said no way not all glass.

 

[mark93]

you re going to have it your way so i cant be bothered with you. my aquairium was built by a shop and yes it does have a guarantee.by the way my mate has a 750 gal. all glass was also built by a proper shop and also has a guarantee.

 

[sardesign]

What were the I beams sitting on? I am guessing the sag is not the I's. Were they on a 2x4 wall frame?




My golly I weigh exactly 187.5 pounds & the combined area of my feet is .673 sq ft...

**********

To jump on the rental band wagon, most rental agreements limit the size & quantity of aquariums to 1 tank no bigger than 55g per floor.

so if..... (Ya know.)

i knew that someone would bring up the human weight point load factor. The floors are rated at those PSF as distributed loads. a human or object with that small of a footprint is considered a point load. your weight is actually distributed to the floor either through floor boards or plywood to the floor joists so you no longer are .673 PSF to the floor joists. if spaced at 16" o.c. you are now approximately 52.9 PSF to each floor joist because the area your weight is distributed to is about 1.77 SF. the floor boards or plywood substrate over your floor joists act as a diaphragm to distribute weight and prevent twisting of structural members under load. this enables many point loads to be distributed along structural members so that objects [or humans] are supported properly. BTW there is always a safety factor involved in these calculations at each step of the structure. each member is actually capable of holding a lot more weight but since there are unregulated factors that can weaken members [i.e. knots, rot, moisture content, etc], the safety factors balance these out so there is almost 0% chance the structure will fail under normal use.

some rental agreements even allow 100 gallons [like my last apartment] but not much more than that.

 

[Lil_Stinker]

i knew that someone would bring up the human weight point load factor. The floors are rated at those PSF as distributed loads. a human or object with that small of a footprint is considered a point load. your weight is actually distributed to the floor either through floor boards or plywood to the floor joists so you no longer are .673 PSF to the floor joists. if spaced at 16" o.c. you are now approximately 52.9 PSF to each floor joist because the area your weight is distributed to is about 1.77 SF. the floor boards or plywood substrate over your floor joists act as a diaphragm to distribute weight and prevent twisting of structural members under load. this enables many point loads to be distributed along structural members so that objects [or humans] are supported properly. BTW there is always a safety factor involved in these calculations at each step of the structure. each member is actually capable of holding a lot more weight but since there are unregulated factors that can weaken members [i.e. knots, rot, moisture content, etc], the safety factors balance these out so there is almost 0% chance the structure will fail under normal use.

some rental agreements even allow 100 gallons [like my last apartment] but not much more than that.

I think you made my point for me on the human factor, thanks...


Other factors that coem in play & more reason for the beams being over rated.. we often drill holes t run wires, cable & pipes.. after thet they still need to hold

 

[sardesign]

I think you made my point for me on the human factor, thanks...


Other factors that coem in play & more reason for the beams being over rated.. we often drill holes t run wires, cable & pipes.. after thet they still need to hold

ok... well i misunderstood you i agree that things still work. it's amazing though some of the things that are done when no one is looking. i remember seeing a picture of a home inspection where someone cut out a 1'-0" section out of a TGI right under a toilet with a floor full of tile. i'm amazed it didn't fall through to be honest... but i bet there was some floor tile cracking.