7-8' male and x2 5-7' female varanus salvadorii

[coura]

I am in no way arrogant. you are obviously into crocodilians have you seen what the aza did to terry cullen he was one of the only people working with chinese alligators. Now no one will be since the adult pair he had died when they raided his facility and stuck them in a cold garage with no water or food. If you have ever seen shows like zoo diaries. where all the people at the zoo really do not know what they are talking about. or you go to a komodo exhibit and to break apart the dragons they use a normal hose. and the male keeps attacking the female. the zoo's all think they are the only ones who should be working with any kinds of wild animals. which is just ridiculous. I went to a zoo last year and there was a guided tour going around they got a reticulated pythons cage and the women says these are the longest snakes in the world. "they can get 30 feet in length and can eat everything from rats,bats,rabbits,birds,pigs,goats and I was told by the curator that his good friend saw one eating a zebra in the wild" .
well first off they live in asia and indo so there fore there are no zebras.
I am in no way an expert and have only been working with reptiles for the last 11 years. But when talking to allot of these zoo staff I feel like I am no longer talking to some one with more knowledge then me.
Maybe its just the zoos around where I live but most of them should not have what they have since they do not have any more expeirence or knowledge on the animals they are keeping as I do.

sorry to be bold.

take care
kirk

Dude I agree 100% with you. There are great zoos out there, but unfortunatly they are way fewer then the "average" one. The average Im talking about takes mostly great care of large mammals, primates, birds, etc, but reptiles have their specific needs greatly ignored. They are lucky they even get the animals surviving apreciable amounts of time, let alone breeding them. My personal experience with zoos in Portugal has been HORRIBLE concerning reptiles, but they all share something in comon: the keepers of such facilities have to be some of the most ignorant and arrogant animal related people you will ever bump into. They will tell you a bunch of $%& and insist that they are rigth. I would NEVER willingly put a animal bred by me in the hands of such people. Animal exibiters and trainers of shows that exist in many zoos are just as bad if not worse. They put animals in a huge amount stress and often handle them in inapropriate, uncofortable ways. Here all zoos have snapping turtles but none of wich has a complete tail. You always see injured, deformed or inapropriatly kept/fed animals, its the rule, period.
I give you 2 basic choices: most zoos either are forced to give up working on this group of animals or zoo keepers are absolutley required to have degrees on biology and animal husbandry, with training given by experienced herptoculturists. If by any means zoos would be the sole place that would be allowed to keep and breed this animals, you would see the extinction of MANY comonly kept species if they werent exported from the wild anymore. Its very sad but it happens. Tom C. had to give up all of its pure blue iguanas to zoos and not only all are as of now dead (at least that is what is stated since this animals were given as a loan) but they also never bred which is ridiculous. I mean this species is not that hard to breed, Tom did it many times with this same animals.
Even National Zoo, which is one of the good ones, states that it was the first intitution to breed komodo dragons when aparently it was a copple privatly kept in Holand that did it first. Zoos have yet to recognize that we may not have their funds but we are way more patient, knowleged, experienced and centered in the well being of the animals we keep then the majority of this institutions are. I mean this year focus of breeding in London Zoo on herpetological/entomological terms is mexican red leg tarantulas, an endangered species? Its that the best they can come up with?! And in a tv show in this same zoo I saw a adult komodo with severe sigths of MBD, arent they aware of it? How can they present this same animal in such a great and inspiring facility and however at the same time not paying atention to something so basic?

 

[Miguel]

Right on, Coura!

 

[A. gigas]

Dude I agree 100% with you. There are great zoos out there, but unfortunatly they are way fewer then the "average" one. The average Im talking about takes mostly great care of large mammals, primates, birds, etc, but reptiles have their specific needs greatly ignored. They are lucky they even get the animals surviving apreciable amounts of time, let alone breeding them. My personal experience with zoos in Portugal has been HORRIBLE concerning reptiles, but they all share something in comon: the keepers of such facilities have to be some of the most ignorant and arrogant animal related people you will ever bump into. They will tell you a bunch of $%& and insist that they are rigth. I would NEVER willingly put a animal bred by me in the hands of such people. Animal exibiters and trainers of shows that exist in many zoos are just as bad if not worse. They put animals in a huge amount stress and often handle them in inapropriate, uncofortable ways. Here all zoos have snapping turtles but none of wich has a complete tail. You always see injured, deformed or inapropriatly kept/fed animals, its the rule, period.
I give you 2 basic choices: most zoos either are forced to give up working on this group of animals or zoo keepers are absolutley required to have degrees on biology and animal husbandry, with training given by experienced herptoculturists. If by any means zoos would be the sole place that would be allowed to keep and breed this animals, you would see the extinction of MANY comonly kept species if they werent exported from the wild anymore. Its very sad but it happens. Tom C. had to give up all of its pure blue iguanas to zoos and not only all are as of now dead (at least that is what is stated since this animals were given as a loan) but they also never bred which is ridiculous. I mean this species is not that hard to breed, Tom did it many times with this same animals.
Even National Zoo, which is one of the good ones, states that it was the first intitution to breed komodo dragons when aparently it was a copple privatly kept in Holand that did it first. Zoos have yet to recognize that we may not have their funds but we are way more patient, knowleged, experienced and centered in the well being of the animals we keep then the majority of this institutions are. I mean this year focus of breeding in London Zoo on herpetological/entomological terms is mexican red leg tarantulas, an endangered species? Its that the best they can come up with?! And in a tv show in this same zoo I saw a adult komodo with severe sigths of MBD, arent they aware of it? How can they present this same animal in such a great and inspiring facility and however at the same time not paying atention to something so basic?

this^

the houston zoo had a 4-5 foot arapaima, and they had it in a circular tank about 10 feet in diameter, and that's the biggest tank they have, and it was already severely stunted, the fins were torn up, and just overall in terrible condition. i really hate to think what will happen when it's 8-10 feet long..

 

[latshki]

so true!, a zoo around here keeps a water monitor, smooth front caiman and a snake neck turtle in the same cage, the water is about 4ft and has been that for years, and every time I have gone there has been not a drop of water in their pond
it makes me sick, but thats what happens when 90% of their staff are volunteers

 

[AndyG.]

Very bold, what some might call borderline arrogant.

It may be bold, but not arrogant or ignorant, when you know without a doubt that you know what you're talking about.

When I had my Croc, I had numerous zoos from across the nation, call and talk to me and ask advice. I had never kept Crocs before but once news and pics spread that I had daily very physical interaction with mine, I was getting numerous calls per month. Some zoos had never kept them and wanted to...other zoos had kept them, deemed them too dangerous and had gotten rid of them. One zoo even had an instance where a normally "tolerant" male, almost killed his keeper, when he ambushed him from an elevated position, for no reason. They asked my advice, on why it happened.

Mine came from a carpeted bedroom habitat, with a space heater to lay in front of. He was fed 1lb of raw chicken, every day...and when he wouldn't eat, he was force fed. He was so overweight, he could barely move let alone run. He had many, many problems and it's the only reason he was so well tempered, when he became healthy again. He was used to be poked and prodded and interacted with and and excersized and he was used to being around him for 85% of the day, every day.

The first night I brought him home, he slept in my kitchen, in my girlfriends lap. An 8' Croc, in the lap of a 5' 6", 125lb woman and that was the first time he had good physical contact.

I whole heartedly agree with the people who have said that zoos think they're the top tier establishments, when it comes to keeping animals. I've actually stopped and corrected zoo employed individuals, when they've been giving tours and said some of the most rediculous things. "Reticulated Pythons can eat grown men!"..."You will die within 30 seconds, if you are bitten by a Copperhead!"...

Just because you're a publically funded establishment, that hires some college educated people, doesn't mean the weekend volunteers need to be spreading false information. If you like working at the zoo enough, learn the facts about animals and learn what the hell you're talking about.

Enough ranting...

Here are some pics of my Croc, the first night I brought him home.

These are after months of care...most days consisted of hours of interaction, strict diet maintenance and working off that fat.

I would never, never, never treat another Croc like I treated mine. I don't care how "tame" the previous owner said it was. The next one I purchase will be the smallest, youngest, healthiest specimen I can find and it will all begin with hours upon hours of daily contact. I don't ever expect another one to be like mine though...and from what I understand, since leaving my care, he's not as tolerant as he was, with me.

 

[coura]

It may be bold, but not arrogant or ignorant, when you know without a doubt that you know what you're talking about.

When I had my Croc, I had numerous zoos from across the nation, call and talk to me and ask advice. I had never kept Crocs before but once news and pics spread that I had daily very physical interaction with mine, I was getting numerous calls per month. Some zoos had never kept them and wanted to...other zoos had kept them, deemed them too dangerous and had gotten rid of them. One zoo even had an instance where a normally "tolerant" male, almost killed his keeper, when he ambushed him from an elevated position, for no reason. They asked my advice, on why it happened.

Mine came from a carpeted bedroom habitat, with a space heater to lay in front of. He was fed 1lb of raw chicken, every day...and when he wouldn't eat, he was force fed. He was so overweight, he could barely move let alone run. He had many, many problems and it's the only reason he was so well tempered, when he became healthy again. He was used to be poked and prodded and interacted with and and excersized and he was used to being around him for 85% of the day, every day.

The first night I brought him home, he slept in my kitchen, in my girlfriends lap. An 8' Croc, in the lap of a 5' 6", 125lb woman and that was the first time he had good physical contact.

I whole heartedly agree with the people who have said that zoos think they're the top tier establishments, when it comes to keeping animals. I've actually stopped and corrected zoo employed individuals, when they've been giving tours and said some of the most rediculous things. "Reticulated Pythons can eat grown men!"..."You will die within 30 seconds, if you are bitten by a Copperhead!"...

Just because you're a publically funded establishment, that hires some college educated people, doesn't mean the weekend volunteers need to be spreading false information. If you like working at the zoo enough, learn the facts about animals and learn what the hell you're talking about.

Enough ranting...

Here are some pics of my Croc, the first night I brought him home.

These are after months of care...most days consisted of hours of interaction, strict diet maintenance and working off that fat.

I would never, never, never treat another Croc like I treated mine. I don't care how "tame" the previous owner said it was. The next one I purchase will be the smallest, youngest, healthiest specimen I can find and it will all begin with hours upon hours of daily contact. I don't ever expect another one to be like mine though...and from what I understand, since leaving my care, he's not as tolerant as he was, with me.

Dude first of, I remenbar the thread you made before and after you got your lizard. Big congrats to you in getting such a amazing specimen reabilited after being harmed by human hands and once again turned into the fast lean pretator capable of killing a tree kangaru it is suposse to be. I have however a final though to ad if I may in my humbleness, to your line of though, if your ever going to get another croc, and your cernatly more then capable of properly taking care of it, I would say that by any means even a small one and with all the TLC you could give it in the world, you shouldnt try to pysicaly interact with him past a certain size without a steel mesh between you two. Really...I can perfecty see that you giving him daily atention since litle is not only usefull but actually necessary, you will get the lizard to know and trust you and into a feeding rotine, which later will be of great use. But things that I too like to do like petting, sitting on the cage floor and waiting for Mr lizard come check out, etc, not worth. Its a condition with this species, otherwise you will likely endup in a hospital. Just make a custom cages with lots of holes you can pass feeding and cleaning tools, and a few separate safe boxes.
Please dont take this wrong, everything I said was already in one way or another stated (yea I know clishé) but I felt that by getting a very small one you were going to try your luck at trying to tame him, at least partially?

 

[AndyG.]

No...I have no desire to try and "tame" one. The ONLY reason mine was as tolerant as he was is because he was on deaths door and couldn't attack anyone if he tried. That's why I got away with as much interaction as I did. Once he became healthy, I had learned his behaviors on when it was time for me to back off...if not, I faced severe consequences.

With the next one I get, I'll get him started young and back off around 4' - 5'. I have no intentions of holding or petting. Only getting it to the point where it's comfortable with me and doesn't try to rip my arm off, every chance it gets.

The only thing I want to accomplish is being able to feed and water, without being charged constantly, extreme fear of attack, etc.

The only other thing I'll do is get it used to being in a hidebox, that I can secure, in the event of a move or a zoo vet visit.

I absolutely do not condone any type of handling, etc and tell people often to not imitate my experiances. I was very lucky to still have all of my fingers.

 

[coura]

I have one more comment. I find amazing that people are flamming this person for trying to breed this species. In my opinion, as long as he knows that dealing with this species has a comparable level of danger to some medium size wild cats (say...clowded lepards) and by that line of though he never tries by any means to handle this animals or similar, thus putting himself in danger, and has the resorces for such endeavor he should actually be encoraged! This is not a endangered species but it isnt by any means a common one either and cb is rare. If he were so lucky to be able to accomplish it he could actually get valuable information and priceless experience. Long term sustainability of this animal in human hands without WC is a very diferent story...by the way people have acting I dont see it happening. Lace monitors are easier to keep then crocs and are stunning! If Im not mistaken ALLOT were bred by a few people in the US (most by one great guy that needs no mentioning) however people have virtually lost it because nobody bred them! What do you guys think are the odds of one of the most demanding species in nowadays herpeculture and that is only ocasionally bred? People have to work TOGETHER zoos and hobbists side by side, as the holders of this animals, (didnt zoos had laces as well? Why didnt they bred them?!) if we want to have the amazing privilege of having animals like this living in our sheds and they have to go the extra mile to allow them to trive and breed.
This is only one breeding but damm at least is something being done to put more of this lizards in this world apart from going out there to get them from New Guinea! It is something being done the rigth way! And the people that get any offspring from this reproduction would be encoraging the demand for more cb ones and at the same time decreasing the need for more wild ones. It may only be a grain of sand in a ocean but at least its something being done. He should as well charge some bucks for its high quality offspring.

 

[toki2292]

coura I fully agree with on the zoos needing to work together with hobbyist's. It upsets me that when i go to a zoo and i talk to a "zoo keeper" about species he is working with and let slip that i currently am working with the same ones he starts talking down at me and telling me im stupid becuase that 15 foot reticulated python is going to strangle and eat me.


I did not mean to flame the original poster by any means just wanted to make sure he new what he was getting into. I truly think he does and wish him luck.

andy its great seeing you around still to.
take care

kirk

 

[Bsixxx]

Whoa! this went up and down hill and all in between lol

Umm read most of this, And i would like to give a great deal of thanks to coura for backing me up and having my back in a since.
Everyone else also.

The point is I love these animals, and I know how to deal with big monitors. The best method for me is the hands off approach, you handle them everyday( with mine anyway) they get stressed and with the big territorial ones deam you as a threat and this is where it becomes dangerous. I'd say to deal with big monitors safely. Almost as approaching a big aggressive dog that you do not know. They will give you warning signs and let you know when they are done with your presence, and they will also let you know when it is ok to enter their territory. Yes theirs! You are just a bystander if anything, to take care and best just get the privilege to see these animals, and if they let you make rare contact consider yourself lucky. I am just gratefull i have the space and time to deal with my most favorite animal. I am so excited to finish these enclosures and see how this all plays out.
I am really happy on how things are going as of now, but will be way more happier when all things are said and done.

Again, i appreciate the support and also the people that give me a little warning. to make sure I know what i am doing.

Thanks all and hopefully i can get some pictures up in a few months.

Cheers!