I'm doing a huge community planted tank. Plants/tank have been going strong for awhile just switching stocking.. I'm going to get a big group of runnynose tetras. Ive always like ram cichlids since they look nice and stay on the smaller size compared to the monsters I use to keep. How many rams would work well in a 8x3x2
8x3x2 ram cichlids question
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I've never mimicked what you are trying specifically...
I kept a colony of Apistogramma Cacatuoides in a standard 125 Gallon for several years. They are colony breeders as opposed to pairing species, so Rams will function quite different. But it was extremely interesting to watch the power shifts. Typically there would be 1 or 2 dominant males that would control half or all of the tank, then several sub dominant males that would control small sectors in the tank. The sub dominant males would function as dominant, until the actual dominant showed up. There were a multitude of females throughout the tank and they would breed with any/all of the males mentioned. There were always fry in the tank. The females made very good mothers. Often passing from between mothers.
I rotated several different fry predators in this tank to prevent overpopulation. Clown Loaches, Cories, several types of Plecos. There's a long list that could function in this capacity that are plant friendly.
I could only imagine a colony like this is an 8' x 3' would be even more exciting than they were in my 6' x 1.5'.
That said...
Rams, being strictly pairing species, will likely want 2-4 sq ft per breeding pair with buffers in between. The denser the plants and potentially driftwood are, the more you could fit.
Personally, I would add a couple of pairs without any fry predators. Then let the second generation grow up and become your Ram "colony". Being sibling tankmates raised in the same large environment together will (slightly) increase your potential for a successful group.
After that second generation matures, you'll likely want to add fry predators.
In my opinion... in that big of a tank, a large colony of colony breeders would create a more dynamic space. If you aren't interested in any of the Apistos, consider Geos. You're tank is big enough to keep a nice colony of bigger species like the stunning Sveni, or a quite large group of smaller Geos like Tapajos. Or Tapajos and Apistos.
I kept a colony of Apistogramma Cacatuoides in a standard 125 Gallon for several years. They are colony breeders as opposed to pairing species, so Rams will function quite different. But it was extremely interesting to watch the power shifts. Typically there would be 1 or 2 dominant males that would control half or all of the tank, then several sub dominant males that would control small sectors in the tank. The sub dominant males would function as dominant, until the actual dominant showed up. There were a multitude of females throughout the tank and they would breed with any/all of the males mentioned. There were always fry in the tank. The females made very good mothers. Often passing from between mothers.
I rotated several different fry predators in this tank to prevent overpopulation. Clown Loaches, Cories, several types of Plecos. There's a long list that could function in this capacity that are plant friendly.
I could only imagine a colony like this is an 8' x 3' would be even more exciting than they were in my 6' x 1.5'.
That said...
Rams, being strictly pairing species, will likely want 2-4 sq ft per breeding pair with buffers in between. The denser the plants and potentially driftwood are, the more you could fit.
Personally, I would add a couple of pairs without any fry predators. Then let the second generation grow up and become your Ram "colony". Being sibling tankmates raised in the same large environment together will (slightly) increase your potential for a successful group.
After that second generation matures, you'll likely want to add fry predators.
In my opinion... in that big of a tank, a large colony of colony breeders would create a more dynamic space. If you aren't interested in any of the Apistos, consider Geos. You're tank is big enough to keep a nice colony of bigger species like the stunning Sveni, or a quite large group of smaller Geos like Tapajos. Or Tapajos and Apistos.
I think a lot more than 6 can fit in a tank with 24 square feet of floorspace but I do agree that if you want a colony you should start with as few adults as possible. You will quickly find that you have enough stock from a few successful spawns and thus don't need to bother buying more adults to start than necessary.
Never knew apistos could colony breed. Did none of them eat each others fry? Does this apply for all species or just cacuatoides?
When talking about Apistos, we often hear people, breeders or suppliers talking about "trios". Thats because they are harem breeders, or colony breeders.
In nature, a male will assert himself over a few square feet, then a different male will assert himself over the next few square feet. Females will wonder back and forth between the males territories. And of course these boundaries are constantly being contested, growing and shrinking. Quite often with multiple males fertilizing the same batch of newly laid eggs. Because of this, they don't really know which are their fry and which aren't.
To make it even more confusing, three or four mothers will often put their fry into one big group and hang out. This way one mother can go eat while two or three guard the fry. And when a mother is ready to lay another batch of eggs, she just doesn't come back to her older fry.
I've tried to simulate this in a 4' tank and it just didn't work. One male would claim the tank and harass any other male constantly. But in a 6' tank, the males had enough space to let it work. Then once they all started breeding, and the second generation matured, it got extra dynamic. That's when I started having sub-dominant males controlling smaller 1-1.5 sq ft areas within the dominant fish's (his father's) territory. And both would fertilize the eggs laid in that territory.
Adding to that there are "sneaker males" which are underdeveloped males, that act like females until it's time to fertilize eggs.
It's one of the most interesting tanks I've ever kept. For several years it was behind the couch in my living room and I would watch it while my ex watched t.v.
As for which Apistos this would work with... I've only personally done it with Cacuatoides. But I believe most Apisto species function very similar. I'd say, pick your preferred species and look into them. Post them here and you'll be sure to get opinions.
Keep in mind, Rams are suitable tankmates for Apistos. So you do not have to do one or the other, you can certainly do both. Especially with the 24 sq ft tank you are working with. So, in my opinion, you should do Rams, Apistos and Tapajos. I've never kept Tapajos with Apistos, but with 24 sq ft, you should be able to create pure open sand areas and heavily planted areas to keep them naturally separated. And like discussed above, just get 2-3 pairs of each and let them all breed until you're happy with the numbers, then add some small fry predators. Most fry will get eaten, but some will survive. And whenever you want you can siphon out a brood and raise them separately.
I cannot vouch for the quality of this answer... but I chatted with AI and got this...
The most widely recognized harem-breeding Apistogramma species include:
Apistogramma agassizii: A classic harem breeder where males are significantly larger and showier than females; they will readily mate with multiple females within their territory.
Apistogramma cacatuoides (Cockatoo Cichlid): Perhaps the most famous harem species; males can successfully manage a group of three or more females if the tank is large enough.
Apistogramma borellii (Umbrella Cichlid): Often kept as a harem, though they are generally less aggressive than other species in this category.
Apistogramma trifasciata (Three-Striped Apisto): Known for strong polygamous behavior, with males defending territories against rival males while keeping several females.
Apistogramma macmasteri: Often described as "casually polygamous"; while they can breed as a pair, they naturally lean toward harem structures in larger environments.
Apistogramma hongsloi: Similar to A. macmasteri, they are typically categorized as harem breeders in community or group settings.
Apistogramma vosei (formerly A. sp. "Steel Blue"): Often exhibits high levels of polygamy in aquarium settings.
Apistogramma viejita: Closely related to the macmasteri group and shares the same harem-forming tendencies.
The most widely recognized harem-breeding Apistogramma species include:
Apistogramma agassizii: A classic harem breeder where males are significantly larger and showier than females; they will readily mate with multiple females within their territory.
Apistogramma cacatuoides (Cockatoo Cichlid): Perhaps the most famous harem species; males can successfully manage a group of three or more females if the tank is large enough.
Apistogramma borellii (Umbrella Cichlid): Often kept as a harem, though they are generally less aggressive than other species in this category.
Apistogramma trifasciata (Three-Striped Apisto): Known for strong polygamous behavior, with males defending territories against rival males while keeping several females.
Apistogramma macmasteri: Often described as "casually polygamous"; while they can breed as a pair, they naturally lean toward harem structures in larger environments.
Apistogramma hongsloi: Similar to A. macmasteri, they are typically categorized as harem breeders in community or group settings.
Apistogramma vosei (formerly A. sp. "Steel Blue"): Often exhibits high levels of polygamy in aquarium settings.
Apistogramma viejita: Closely related to the macmasteri group and shares the same harem-forming tendencies.