Sure will do when i get up to the point of building it. Builders are here in next few weeks to build the walls and i am about to order the tank and sump. That is why i need the advice now so i get it right!That's a huge sump! I guess it would be good for the extra volume of water and more room for sump design options. Also u can check the stickies in the "How to size my pump" thread on PVC size and flow calculations. Post pics please
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8x4x2 and 7x3x18" tall sump set up
- Thread starter jim barry
- Start date
Absolutely, bigger the better!
Plus i want the extra space to have a section for stingray pups.
The K1 implementations I have seen on this board have been incredible. I know nothing about Rays but I find it hard to believe that a bubbling chamber of K1 would not be sufficient bio filtration for your tank. I personally prefer wet/dry bio balls but they seem like they would be a complete waste if you have a chamber of suspended K1. The K1 implementations I have seen on here take a very large air volume to keep the K1 suspended in the water column. That large air volume takes a pretty large air pump and seems like it might be noisy. If you aren't concerned about the noise and ongoing power costs to run a K1 chamber then I can't see anything you would gain by adding a wet/dry chamber. I would use the extra space for the refugeum.
Both wet/dry chambers and K1 chambers serve the same purpose... to break Ammonia down to Nitrates. From what I have seen both are excellent for this intended purpose. If you want to add another chamber to your sump I would add a chamber with a different purpose. I think the Pothos chamber mentioned by another poster or something like it would be an excellent choice. Pothos is a plant that consumes Nitrates and converts them into plant growth. Considering that you have not mentioned any plan for dealing with nitrates this would make much more sense and improve the overall water quality versus a chamber with a completely redundant purpose.
P.S. I will completely bow to DIDYSIS's recommendation of 2" bulkheads!
IM building a 10ft tank with a 48" and 50lt of k1, the k1 needs 100lt of space in the sump and a big air pump! The 50lt of k1 would handle 500grams of food with no problem, i using a dart with 1.5 bulkheads and Beananimal overflow, later im going to upload a pic of the sump could help you have an idea!
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Things need aware when use K1 moving bed in filter chamber from much experience:
1) Flow pattern in chamber. First plan how water enter and leave chamber. If start by water enter into chamber using high flow spray or jet, then already good start for agitate K1. Then use air pump as help only, not main way to agitate it. So, less electricity, less noise. Conclusion: water inlet method use small size area, large flow rate per area of inlet size. Main problem to design K1 moving bed is how water leave chamber? Big problem is K1 all lump together at water outlet, not good. So, must need outlet as large area as possible and low flow rate per area of outlet size. Some suggestions are long slotted pipe with slots all along pipe all around pipe in every direction for very long length. Or big underwater panel with too many holes in bottom of chamber wall opposite to water inlet. Get flow pattern in chamber right first. then use 1 or 2 or even 3 huge air pump not so much necessary but of course can still help.
2) New K1 out of bag is not easy use. New K1 out of bag floats so not really agitating under water at all. So, new K1 out of bag needs long time soaking in water before start submerging. Be ready to supply plentiful time (1 week) for new K1 out of bag to start submerge. Some people add potassium permanganate to "pre-treat" new K1 out of bag, to erode or "etch" surface of brand new K1 so help K1 submerge. Some people like, some people no like this way. Also, new K1 out of bag takes silly long time before cycle ready, like 6 months!! Some people think new K1 out of bag has "protective" layer over it too hard for good bacteria to stick on. So some people think if pre-treat with potassium permanganate, bacteria stick easier. Still, new K1 out of bag takes silly long time to cycle, pre-treat or not. So, best way is get already cycled K1 from friend! Or else, prepare plenty time (many months) for fishless cycle of new K1. If doing this silly long-time way, use lower much lower flow rate when cycling so bacteria stick better, not all keep washing away. Then, after cycling, can use high flow rate.
3) K1 is now 10 years more old. Even Kaldness making K1 know there is problem, ie, although K1 good home for bacteria, K1 has too much flow so no good for beneficial micro-animals, eg, rotifers, these cannot find home to live as all get washed away. So, Kaldness now say, use 20% their new product Bio Chip + 80% K1, so rotifers et al find good home to live and help bacteria work together better than just bacteria alone.
4) A mature K1 moving bed filter chamber is very biologically active. Huge quantities of bacteria live and die in there. So, while very good biological filtration, also be aware it actually "makes" rubbish, ie, all the residue from dead bacteria. This looks like some fine gold dusty sand material. Very harmless, but if water goes straight back to main tank from K1 moving bed, then water in main tank will look cloudy! No problem for fish, but we will flame you if you post photo of your nice tank with happy fish, everyone will laugh at your cloudy water and tell you to do more water change, use diatom filter, etc, etc, make you feel loser whore. So, recommend some type mechanical filtration, even if only a foam pre-filter, before pump takes water from K1 moving bed back to main tank.
Good fun with sump filter!
Kuji out.
1) Flow pattern in chamber. First plan how water enter and leave chamber. If start by water enter into chamber using high flow spray or jet, then already good start for agitate K1. Then use air pump as help only, not main way to agitate it. So, less electricity, less noise. Conclusion: water inlet method use small size area, large flow rate per area of inlet size. Main problem to design K1 moving bed is how water leave chamber? Big problem is K1 all lump together at water outlet, not good. So, must need outlet as large area as possible and low flow rate per area of outlet size. Some suggestions are long slotted pipe with slots all along pipe all around pipe in every direction for very long length. Or big underwater panel with too many holes in bottom of chamber wall opposite to water inlet. Get flow pattern in chamber right first. then use 1 or 2 or even 3 huge air pump not so much necessary but of course can still help.
2) New K1 out of bag is not easy use. New K1 out of bag floats so not really agitating under water at all. So, new K1 out of bag needs long time soaking in water before start submerging. Be ready to supply plentiful time (1 week) for new K1 out of bag to start submerge. Some people add potassium permanganate to "pre-treat" new K1 out of bag, to erode or "etch" surface of brand new K1 so help K1 submerge. Some people like, some people no like this way. Also, new K1 out of bag takes silly long time before cycle ready, like 6 months!! Some people think new K1 out of bag has "protective" layer over it too hard for good bacteria to stick on. So some people think if pre-treat with potassium permanganate, bacteria stick easier. Still, new K1 out of bag takes silly long time to cycle, pre-treat or not. So, best way is get already cycled K1 from friend! Or else, prepare plenty time (many months) for fishless cycle of new K1. If doing this silly long-time way, use lower much lower flow rate when cycling so bacteria stick better, not all keep washing away. Then, after cycling, can use high flow rate.
3) K1 is now 10 years more old. Even Kaldness making K1 know there is problem, ie, although K1 good home for bacteria, K1 has too much flow so no good for beneficial micro-animals, eg, rotifers, these cannot find home to live as all get washed away. So, Kaldness now say, use 20% their new product Bio Chip + 80% K1, so rotifers et al find good home to live and help bacteria work together better than just bacteria alone.
4) A mature K1 moving bed filter chamber is very biologically active. Huge quantities of bacteria live and die in there. So, while very good biological filtration, also be aware it actually "makes" rubbish, ie, all the residue from dead bacteria. This looks like some fine gold dusty sand material. Very harmless, but if water goes straight back to main tank from K1 moving bed, then water in main tank will look cloudy! No problem for fish, but we will flame you if you post photo of your nice tank with happy fish, everyone will laugh at your cloudy water and tell you to do more water change, use diatom filter, etc, etc, make you feel loser whore. So, recommend some type mechanical filtration, even if only a foam pre-filter, before pump takes water from K1 moving bed back to main tank.
Good fun with sump filter!
Kuji out.
My opinion: have both is not redundant, have both is better. Reason being: K1 moving-bed is more efficient biologically than wet/dry bio-ball, BUT, wet/dry bio-ball oxygenates much better than K1 moving-bed. Also, some people find extreme rapid flow wet/dry bio-ball can "de-gas" ammonia but how much this happens? How much this affects nitrate levels? Answers to these questions are controversial. Also, if wanting to do so, can make water go extreme high flow-rate through small cross-sectional area of wet/dry bio-ball to act as foam-fractionator, to remove dissolved organic compounds (DOC's)! So, if plentiful space, can do lots!
