Has anyone tried this process here:
http://deepblue.lib.umich.edu/bitst...dfield_Saltwater_Cichlids_2004.pdf?sequence=1
http://deepblue.lib.umich.edu/bitst...dfield_Saltwater_Cichlids_2004.pdf?sequence=1
Acclimated to salt water successfully
- Thread starter Sharkzilla
- Start date
Interesting artical.
There was a member on here last year that was trying to convert Mayans (Cichlasoma urophthalmus) to full saltwater. I don’t know what ever came of it.
Cichlids have evolved from a wrasse like salt water fish and I have always found the study of the evolution of cichlids very interesting. However when ever I bring it up or post something about it the thread just lays there and dies a slow death, perhaps this thread will have the same fate. I hope not. There is also a thread about the successful breeding of Central and South American cichlids which was long thought to be an impossibility (Umbi & Festae not withstanding). Many Central American cichlids live in water with a high Ph and hardness closer to that which you find in the Rift lakes of Africa than that which is normally associated with new world species. The white-lipped Talapia (Oreochromis alcalica) lives in the highly saline Lake Natron and Lake Bahi in the northern rift valley where the ph is around 9 to 10 and temperatures that hover around 100 +/- degrees. So these fish (cichlids) are much more adaptable than we think in many cases. Although this is an example of fish that have adapted to this environment over a millennium it is worth mentioning here.
While some central American cichlids are more acceptable of higher levels of salinity than others, and may in fact be able to survive in full salt water, I think (and this is only my opinion) in the wild if the situation presented itself they would be capable of moving between the two as Mayans have been observed doing. They may (they being many species of cichlid), out of necessity be capable of moving between fresh to brackish and in some cases full salt and back but not live in full saltwater for an extended period of time. This is why converting many species of cichlid to full salt water may not be practical, in the wild they may move from one medium to another but not say there permanently. Cichlids are a very successful family as a whole and have adapted to fill many niches in various conditions throughout the world. What they are capable of as far as adaptability given enough time may prove to be limitless. This doesn’t mean we can expect to see a Jack Dempsey swimming around in a reef tank any time soon.
There was a member on here last year that was trying to convert Mayans (Cichlasoma urophthalmus) to full saltwater. I don’t know what ever came of it.
Cichlids have evolved from a wrasse like salt water fish and I have always found the study of the evolution of cichlids very interesting. However when ever I bring it up or post something about it the thread just lays there and dies a slow death, perhaps this thread will have the same fate. I hope not. There is also a thread about the successful breeding of Central and South American cichlids which was long thought to be an impossibility (Umbi & Festae not withstanding). Many Central American cichlids live in water with a high Ph and hardness closer to that which you find in the Rift lakes of Africa than that which is normally associated with new world species. The white-lipped Talapia (Oreochromis alcalica) lives in the highly saline Lake Natron and Lake Bahi in the northern rift valley where the ph is around 9 to 10 and temperatures that hover around 100 +/- degrees. So these fish (cichlids) are much more adaptable than we think in many cases. Although this is an example of fish that have adapted to this environment over a millennium it is worth mentioning here.
While some central American cichlids are more acceptable of higher levels of salinity than others, and may in fact be able to survive in full salt water, I think (and this is only my opinion) in the wild if the situation presented itself they would be capable of moving between the two as Mayans have been observed doing. They may (they being many species of cichlid), out of necessity be capable of moving between fresh to brackish and in some cases full salt and back but not live in full saltwater for an extended period of time. This is why converting many species of cichlid to full salt water may not be practical, in the wild they may move from one medium to another but not say there permanently. Cichlids are a very successful family as a whole and have adapted to fill many niches in various conditions throughout the world. What they are capable of as far as adaptability given enough time may prove to be limitless. This doesn’t mean we can expect to see a Jack Dempsey swimming around in a reef tank any time soon.
The main reason I don't do saltwater is the extra maintenance and cost. Not sure why anyone would take something simple and make it more complicated, time consuming and more expensive when it isn't necessary or beneficial.
I remember that too, but no updates on what happened. I personally have seen mayans in salt and brackish water. I saw one mayan that was fighting with a saltwater fish that looked like a wrasse. The wrasse was a very neon blue color, with black. The mayans you seen in salt and brackish water seem to be much more colorful. From what I have read you can also find firemouths in some brackish locations too.
My thoughts exactly.
I also can't think of any saltwater fish that would compliment the fish named temperament wise. so you would have loan fresh water fish in a SW aquarium. i understand wanting to try to it to see if it can be done. But I don't think it is something that should be done.
I have seen the uropthalmus spoken of in the article in the inner shore habitat sea grass beds of Isla Mujeras, and also in some canals with sea access in Riveria Maya. They were thought to be a separate species (troeschelli (sp?) at one point, as their coloration is deeper than many of the inland versions. In general, uropthalmus seem to have a more excessive slime coat than other cichlids, which may have something to do with its ability to handle many different conditions.
There are also cenotes only a few hundred yards from the sea, that are highly brackish and have populations of uropthalmus and Rocio.
I have kept the Alcolapia species Aquanero mentions in highly brackish water, and also the Asian cichlid Etroplus suratensus which does very well in brackish and even seawater, especially as an adult.
The Etroplus I kept, seemed to be very prone to ich if salinity (and temp) were allowed to slip.
I also agree with Tom that these species are exceptions, and have evolved over millions of years and many generations to get to this point, and doubt we will see reef tanks with oscars or blue rams any time soon.
In the shot below, are Velifora mollies and jack Dempseys in cenote Cristallino located only a block or 2 off the Caribbean sea, and very brackish much of the time (depending on rainfall).
Below Alcolapia alcalicus, from Lake Natron, which has a salinity higher than sea water.
and a short video of uros and JDs in a small slightly brackish pool near Eden Cenote
There are also cenotes only a few hundred yards from the sea, that are highly brackish and have populations of uropthalmus and Rocio.
I have kept the Alcolapia species Aquanero mentions in highly brackish water, and also the Asian cichlid Etroplus suratensus which does very well in brackish and even seawater, especially as an adult.
The Etroplus I kept, seemed to be very prone to ich if salinity (and temp) were allowed to slip.
I also agree with Tom that these species are exceptions, and have evolved over millions of years and many generations to get to this point, and doubt we will see reef tanks with oscars or blue rams any time soon.
In the shot below, are Velifora mollies and jack Dempseys in cenote Cristallino located only a block or 2 off the Caribbean sea, and very brackish much of the time (depending on rainfall).
Below Alcolapia alcalicus, from Lake Natron, which has a salinity higher than sea water.
and a short video of uros and JDs in a small slightly brackish pool near Eden Cenote
I found the thread from last year may the OP will see this and give us an update: http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forums/showthread.php?548311-Brackish-Central-American-Cichlids
...Speaking my language somewhat. I've had a few vicariance vs. marine dispersal cichlid origin forum discussions, etc. but it's normally either pretty esoteric or of only passing interest for most members of most fish forums ime. Part of a larger subject on which I have scores of references and have written many pages, but still takes a fair investment of time and thought to discuss in a forum setting, partly because the whole cichlid origin subject is one with more than one theory when you get to reading non-hobbyist academic sources.
As far as acclimating cichlids to marine conditions, I can see two sides of it. One reason I could personally see doing it would be out of a sort of scientific curiosity, since some species reportedly spend time in coastal marine waters. Could be some intriguing things about it, like how much does it affect behavior, feeding, color, growth, etc?
I know it is natural but my old green spotted puffer was acclimated from 1.002 to 1.026 along with a couple plants and guppies over the course of about 6 months. I wanted to try other fish but lost interest. The guppies seemed healthier and more active, even breeding frequently
#1 I like to experiment, it's very interesting how the fishes liver can adapt.
#2 Goal of crossbreeding a salt friendly cichlid with a flowerhorn and hopefully getting a FH to breed in 1.026 salinity
Why do i want saltwater flowerhorns? salterwater doesnt smell as bad as freshwater in my living room and it's cheaper for me to maintain cause my water changes are free, I live right by the ocean. I also use paper towels in my sump (on top of the foam) It scrubs like a micron filter. change it once a week for a smell free, clear tank, in fresh water the paper towel starts to mold.