Advice: Big Tank Or Pondarium?

[BK1]

Thanks Yoimbrian, Most of the time the units were in feet. I believe I have specified where meteres are being used, all the rest for eg 10x4x4 is in feet.

Sorry, that the difficult part about living in an age of transition between imperial and metric, my oldies (parents) use feet, I was taught some feet at school, and from high school up everything was metric.

Apologies will try and be more specific in future.

I agree odd shaped FTW, however we are going to make it ourselves, and when I say pretty handy, the pretty is the operative word in that. We are 'white collar' workers, with a bit of handy man ability. Sooooooooo....... Square may be our only option. The construction would be a thick slab, cinder-blocks, core filled, over-engineered bracing. Any ideas around how one would actually make an odd-shaped pond? esp one that needs to raise up about 5 feet to allow a good viewing window? Thoughts are most most welcome.

5 feet tall in 19mm?

 

[BK1]

All sound good, the first tank sounds the way id go but its all about preference. Definitely not going to want a 6 foot tall tank with 19mm glass, it would burst before you got 75% full and at that depth anything and everything becomes a serious struggle.

Hi Brich, thanks for your reply, do you have some exp with tall tanks? Understand the pressure concerns and catastrophic failure, def dont want that, so 5 feet ok? or stick with 4 you reckon? what else promoted you to say 'everything become a serious struggle" what else at depth is a concern? Substrate vacuuming?

 

[BK1]

You really didn't say how the pondarium would be built. But for the cost of that custom tank you could do a serious DIY build.

For the garage tank, would one of those windows be into the house? Would the Pondarium window be viewable into the house? Personally, this would be my priority. Otherwise you might always regret the decision after the thousandth time going outside or into the garage to enjoy your fish.

For the pondarium, I always thought it would be cool to have a window from the house into something like that. Here in the states for about $10-15K you can get huge windowed fiberglass tank. If your house has a basement you can cut out a huge picture window in the concrete wall (with support beam) and then bury the tank and seal it up against the outside wall. With the basement wall window cut out with sloping edges, it would look pretty cool. THis would be the quick, easy way. Even better would be to pour yourself a concrete one exactly how you want it, using the basement wall for one side.

If you don't have a basement, maybe there is a wall in the house good for this and then you can make it look like a nice add-on to the house from the outside complete with matching shingles, ect and have a nice utility room on top.

Yeah, this is all hard-core stuff, but IMO, so is a giant custom tank that was bought. If it was me, I would research what the biggest body of water that you could afford to maintain and then start from there.

G'day Spiff, thanks for your reply,

Pondarium would be built at home by my mate and I, (we can call in some further muscle if required) would be a thick-ass slab, core-filled and cross braced cinderblock walls, central drainage. That big plexi window at the front cutting the waterline. A natural filtration pool (ie a shallow pool with some water plants - hope to configure this to get a heap of sun and thus warm also, hopefully keeping heating costs down.) and a big ass mechanical filtration maybe pool filter, maybe several huge canisters. and UV. (intent there to be a 'pump house' near to the pond to house all mechanical units from the elements. This is all DIY.

Basic costings at this stage are Pond -5k, tank 4k (tank only)

Man, I am not sure i understand your basement suggestion exactly, but I like it! lol

Are you saying the tank is then in the basement for ever? Please explain a bit further for this simpleton.

I get the outside one, as an addition to the house. However while we are able to make pretty much any adjustment/improvement around the house, changes to the actual house are probably the least desirable.

Which brings me to where we are at, The biggest body of water I can currently envisage being possible is these two options, tank/pondarium.

 

[aldiaz33]

Out of curiosity, why not build the "forever tank" the first time around?

You might find the video below with details on JohnPTC's tank interesting. He provides some details on the costs to build his system as well as the ongoing monthly cost to run the tank. It's probably a good idea to know what you are getting yourself into...tanks large enough to house Arapaima are not cheap to build, and the cost to run them is pretty astronomical too.

I'm not implying that you can't afford it, but a lot of people say that they will "just upgrade when the time comes" and they have no idea what that entails. Sounds like you are doing your research though...I would love to see another setup like John's.

http://www.animalplanet.com/tv-show...eos/most-outrageous-largest-home-aquarium.htm

 

[BK1]

Out of curiosity, why not build the "forever tank" the first time around?

You might find the video below with details on JohnPTC's tank interesting. He provides some details on the costs to build his system as well as the ongoing monthly cost to run the tank. It's probably a good idea to know what you are getting yourself into...tanks large enough to house Arapaima are not cheap to build, and the cost to run them is pretty astronomical too.

I'm not implying that you can't afford it, but a lot of people say that they will "just upgrade when the time comes" and they have no idea what that entails. Sounds like you are doing your research though...I would love to see another setup like John's.

http://www.animalplanet.com/tv-show...eos/most-outrageous-largest-home-aquarium.htm

Hi Alex,

Thanks for you note, Is that your 770 gallon linked in your sig? Awesome if so. Your tank is actually the one I show to ppl, such as my wife to get them an idea of the size/scope of this project. May I just say that thing is beyond sexy man. Sure hope it is yours and not just that your linked it in your sig. Or all my fawning will be in vain.

I wish the link you sent me worked, I am pretty sure its this crappy connection, and so will look tonight at home,

To answer your initial question, and its a good one. I suppose the answer is two fold: 1. Time, I believe the ultimate would be something in the vicinity of 12 - 24 months to get completely stood up. (Nothing fishwise that I acquire in that timeframe will NEED the ultimate yet) 2. Not sure if I will build/will have built/will have parts built/will repurpose the pool. So there are a few options in terms of my ulitmate.

Yes I understand the cost involved in keeping a body of water that large.

Correct me where required, but largely the cost will come in terms of heating right? I mean food, water, chemicals, filtration etc, everything will have an associated cost, however in terms of a single big cost and an ongoing one esp. for a pond (obvi outdoors) for the fish I wish to keep, will need to be heated, particularly in winter. Any familiarity in an air-source heat pump?

Will watch the link you made tonight.

Thanks again mate! Appreciate your input.

 

[brett0]

We've got some great monster fish here in Australia , I'd be going with a Murray Cod as they don`t need heating . But a there is nothing as awesome as a big Barramundi or Saratoga.

 

[spiff44]

G'day Spiff, thanks for your reply,

Pondarium would be built at home by my mate and I, (we can call in some further muscle if required) would be a thick-ass slab, core-filled and cross braced cinderblock walls, central drainage. That big plexi window at the front cutting the waterline. A natural filtration pool (ie a shallow pool with some water plants - hope to configure this to get a heap of sun and thus warm also, hopefully keeping heating costs down.) and a big ass mechanical filtration maybe pool filter, maybe several huge canisters. and UV. (intent there to be a 'pump house' near to the pond to house all mechanical units from the elements. This is all DIY.

Basic costings at this stage are Pond -5k, tank 4k (tank only)

Man, I am not sure i understand your basement suggestion exactly, but I like it! lol

Are you saying the tank is then in the basement for ever? Please explain a bit further for this simpleton.

I get the outside one, as an addition to the house. However while we are able to make pretty much any adjustment/improvement around the house, changes to the actual house are probably the least desirable.

Which brings me to where we are at, The biggest body of water I can currently envisage being possible is these two options, tank/pondarium.

That's going to be awesome! You can't go wrong with a concrete/cinderblock build.

Regarding the basement, just picture a picture window on your outside wall, but it will look into the tank that butts against it from the outside. The idea here is that you can bury along the outside wall a tank that would never fit into the basement otherwise nor take up any of your basement space. This would be a perfect idea for a huge premade fiberglass tank, but also for a custom concrete one too.

So I'm talking outside the house, right next to the basement wall. Then you can build a shed or addition on top to merge it with the rest of the house.. (just throwing out idea's here). Done right, you can have a basement picture window into your pond.

I build one in my basement and its cool as hell, but I always thought it would have made more sense if it was outside (but underground) so I can have that 10x4ft space on my floor back.

 

[Squirtle919]

Hi Squirtle, seen you around a bit, thanks for the reply, ( Not exactly relevant - but dude, whenever I see your posts, I get captivated by your signature GIF. mmmmm)

I was thinking about the tank first, by way of a grow out of sorts. Also Tank would take roughly 1 - 2 months to build and accumulate everything. Pond more like at least 4 months (we work full time and with winter sunlight working hours will be restricted to weekends only). TBH pond is prob more like 6 - 9months of slow work. So I think you may be on the right track mate.

Which fish I mention are noxious? I didnt think any were, although all grey I thought. Man it really is hard to know what you can legally have and what you can't. EG, can you legally purchase and keep an asian aro if it was bred here (unmicrochipped?)

I've got a line on all those fish (not acquired yet) with the exception of gigas. Any regard him as the crowing jewel. So its a glaring omission. Dude, if you hear of any of those babies coming up again, regardless of price please let me know, I've got a pretty decent network of grey fish dudes in Sydney. but as mentioned never, not in 5 or more years of searching have I seen a gigas for sale. Its my grail.

I know dude, not a spastic, and thats why the lines around growing with the fish's requirements. the 2.5 x 2.5 should only house one for about 5 years (from a Juvi) in my estimation, and that depends on growth rate, it may well be shorter than that. Thats cool. Honestly I will build the 50000 + 15000 gallon ulitimate 'pima tank I believe we would all be familiar with, when/if required. - Also on the long term radar is the possibility of turning our pool into a pond. Don't worry man, as I said I have no interest in keeping the fish in a space thats too small for him. (Neither in an 'Asian' type set up, where its bare glass and fish)

2 worst things a fishkeeper can do IMO - 1. Keep the fish in a space thats too small, 2. release any fish into the waterways. - Anyone guilty of either of these crimes should be shot.

Cheers Squirtle,

BK

Hey mate, glad to hear about the gif :d

doing both sounds like the way to go, you will have a lot more options that way but the money and time will increase.

Noxious is hard in our granny state, every state has a different set of rules... for example koi are legal in syd but in melb they are considered noxious, bit like the fireworks from ACT lol. Asains and silvers are noxious full stop as far as I know... dont get me wrong you can still acquire them just dont go flashing pictures on forums, most people with the good fish here stay far away from sites like these for safety. Pacu are noxious, I was even reading a few days ago of a wide bar SD being surrendered to avoid a fine, same goes for red hooks your only suppose to have males... but of course when they are sent here who knows what they are. Not sure with ali gars... but I am 90% sure they are noxious.

I will PM you about the gigas next time if your keen, I have been offered them a few times now id love one also but if I ever do get to use my swimming pool its going to be SW so id have no space for such a monster.

I have to agree with alex, if your going to build this pondarium why not just smash it out and go as big as you can first time around? sure it may take longer but thats why I think having the tank is a great idea, this will allow you to move slow and steady, I think this would be best then you can keep your pool for other fish if the time comes :d

Have to agree with you, if people did not release there fish all the lovely fish may not cost us an arm and a leg, really gets to me half of them cant even live in our water & we just create a black market anyways putting excessive cash into the wrong peoples hand.

P.S in regards to heating I am still a little confused with your setup but... if its in doors I would go with a reverse cycle unit, my room + the add on puts me at 11.5 meters x 6 meters wide and I am heating all my tanks with a 700W unit you cant really beat that, its also great as when I want to view the fish the rooms not a freezer. For our pool we have looked into heat pump water heaters which are pretty much the exact same as the air versions but you plumb them into the system, I have not used these but they claim to use the same amount of power for a larger output ( what heat pumps do ) this could be the way to go for your pondarium, ideally having both maybe the best method due to the size your looking at, one will heat the water direct and the other will heat the air which in turn wont allow much heat transfer between the water / air , I used to use 300W heaters and the power bill has dropped so much sense using the heat pump it was really worth it I have friends with 8x2x2s using more power to heat them. Mind you I do have overkill insulation but its clearly paid for its self.... 1200$ ~ per month back down to 500-600$ winter is more sometimes due to heating the house this is ruffly 80$ more then before I had my room which is pretty good I think considering the amount of tanks running at times.

The other option one of my friends do is running gas coils into the sumps, I have little idea how this is setup but its working for him as some tanks are kept outside @ 30c he is a bit more loaded then the average though so it maybe still costing him a bit but I have been told his also saving a lot more then heating the systems with normal heaters.

 

[BK1]

That's going to be awesome! You can't go wrong with a concrete/cinderblock build.

Regarding the basement, just picture a picture window on your outside wall, but it will look into the tank that butts against it from the outside. The idea here is that you can bury along the outside wall a tank that would never fit into the basement otherwise nor take up any of your basement space. This would be a perfect idea for a huge premade fiberglass tank, but also for a custom concrete one too.

So I'm talking outside the house, right next to the basement wall. Then you can build a shed or addition on top to merge it with the rest of the house.. (just throwing out idea's here). Done right, you can have a basement picture window into your pond.

I build one in my basement and its cool as hell, but I always thought it would have made more sense if it was outside (but underground) so I can have that 10x4ft space on my floor back.

Ahhhh, Got ya That would be super cool. Unfortunately no basement as such. But brings up an interesting concept tho. As I now realize you were suggesting at first, (for me it wouldn't be basement, but maybe dining room.......... ) One could build a reinforced out side platform, built on a slab to have the super tank on. Cut massive hole in side of house. Hrrrrm. Thanks a lot. You know you've now ensured I leave work early today to get home before dark and walk around my house and see where this might be possible. As it solves a couple of problems, 1.Having to reinforce the wooden floor to the crap-house 2. Taking up too much space inside and wife having further ammunition - doesn't need that! 3. Central location for tank, don't have to go to garage or elsewhere to view 'my precious'.

Good suggestion Spiff, thanks mate!

 

[BK1]

Hey mate, glad to hear about the gif :d

doing both sounds like the way to go, you will have a lot more options that way but the money and time will increase.

Noxious is hard in our granny state, every state has a different set of rules... for example koi are legal in syd but in melb they are considered noxious, bit like the fireworks from ACT lol. Asains and silvers are noxious full stop as far as I know... dont get me wrong you can still acquire them just dont go flashing pictures on forums, most people with the good fish here stay far away from sites like these for safety. Pacu are noxious, I was even reading a few days ago of a wide bar SD being surrendered to avoid a fine, same goes for red hooks your only suppose to have males... but of course when they are sent here who knows what they are. Not sure with ali gars... but I am 90% sure they are noxious.

I will PM you about the gigas next time if your keen, I have been offered them a few times now id love one also but if I ever do get to use my swimming pool its going to be SW so id have no space for such a monster.

I have to agree with alex, if your going to build this pondarium why not just smash it out and go as big as you can first time around? sure it may take longer but thats why I think having the tank is a great idea, this will allow you to move slow and steady, I think this would be best then you can keep your pool for other fish if the time comes :d

Have to agree with you, if people did not release there fish all the lovely fish may not cost us an arm and a leg, really gets to me half of them cant even live in our water & we just create a black market anyways putting excessive cash into the wrong peoples hand.

P.S in regards to heating I am still a little confused with your setup but... if its in doors I would go with a reverse cycle unit, my room + the add on puts me at 11.5 meters x 6 meters wide and I am heating all my tanks with a 700W unit you cant really beat that, its also great as when I want to view the fish the rooms not a freezer. For our pool we have looked into heat pump water heaters which are pretty much the exact same as the air versions but you plumb them into the system, I have not used these but they claim to use the same amount of power for a larger output ( what heat pumps do ) this could be the way to go for your pondarium, ideally having both maybe the best method due to the size your looking at, one will heat the water direct and the other will heat the air which in turn wont allow much heat transfer between the water / air , I used to use 300W heaters and the power bill has dropped so much sense using the heat pump it was really worth it I have friends with 8x2x2s using more power to heat them. Mind you I do have overkill insulation but its clearly paid for its self.... 1200$ ~ per month back down to 500-600$ winter is more sometimes due to heating the house this is ruffly 80$ more then before I had my room which is pretty good I think considering the amount of tanks running at times.

The other option one of my friends do is running gas coils into the sumps, I have little idea how this is setup but its working for him as some tanks are kept outside @ 30c he is a bit more loaded then the average though so it maybe still costing him a bit but I have been told his also saving a lot more then heating the systems with normal heaters.

Hypnotic, almost like a lava lamp. lol.

Yeah you guys have a point, around doing Ulti-build straight up, but I guess truthfully, I don't think I am ready for it man! Been keeping fish for 15 years +. Am now in a place in my life with a bit of income that can be diverted to this passion, but I dont think I am ready for a 10m x 10m x 6m as yet. I guess my pondarium is sort of a test run. Done enough projects to know even with great plans, there are always improvements you wish you had made over version 1.0. Also I would like to know how much it will be to heat this sucker, give me a much better idea of what heating the ulimate would be.

Plus WA (wife approval) has been gained for the proposed size. Will need to prove this concept not only works but is desirable, (as I know it will be) prior to submitting my plans for repurposing essentially the entire backyard lol. That will take a little more convincing.

Yeah dude, nanny state, nanny country. Sucks to be us. Responsible fish keepers with a passion for bigger figured fish. OK, I was about 80% sure gators were ok, grey I believe. The rest you are correct about. But yeah, my query around an asian aro, say a red fusion, that has been bred here? AS in I believe although noxious as they were legal for a time, ppl with existing ones from prior to the ban (2007?) were not required to destroy them. They are 'legally' allowed to keep the fish they bought before the ban. Right so far? So what then happens if those 'legal' fish spawn? Must the spawn be destroyed? OR can they be legally traded? So hard to know, and the fines are so massive. I know thats how authorities deem if it is an illegal import or not, with a scanner, as all the asian arrows that are imported from farms are chipped. So what if you could prove it was bred here from 'legal' stock? same with arapaima. Were legal for a window, ppl have them they weren't required to destroy them and so can legally have them what if they spawn?

But please mate, please PM me if you hear of them again. Any size. - If I could get a biggie straight up I would have to look into the ultimate straight up.

Regarding heating, you got it, for pond considering combination shallow 'heating/filtration' pool. + Air source Heat Pump/ Water source. For tank more traditional prob just a 600-700w will do it.