Air bubbles

[greenterra]

I dont even know where to begin and I have to go into work in just a few minutes......

The test was done with 500 ml beakers, no taper. You are correct that it has very little surface area by itself.

You are missing the point entirely. Dissolved Oxygen CONCENTRATION is independent of volume. If the same experiment had been done on a larger scale, say 1000, or 1 million gallons, and the same proportion of bubbles was used the results would be the same.

you are right in what you are saying here but my point is that no one is going to place hundreds of air stones in their aquarium to replicate the conditions you had in your beaker.To put it in scale.
Say you introduced air at say 1L per minute to your 500ml beaker.
That is equivilent 1200L per minute in a 600L tank.
We want to see our fish so therefore you have to do it to scale.You state air stones are the most effective.Don't get me wrong.I still use them.However after doing some research on wastewater and airation I am not convinced.I now beleive a powerhead with a venturi is better.The reason why as it is creating fine bubbles.mixing and circulating at the same time.Something you did not do in your experiment.I have attached a link from an innovative company who is a world leader in this field.They produce both small / large air diffussers and also other oxygenating equipment.There product (the ASPIRO) surface mounted self-aspirating propeller type aerator is reguarded as one of the best systems in the world and leaves their diffussers which are better than bubblers for dead.This is why I stated if you used a blender in your beaker and not mixed it by hand it should have beat your airstone

When you look at the link,also look at the pdf file towards top right side.Click on it aswell to get a better look at the system.They are sold world wide.
http://www.patrickcharles.com/products/aeration/aspiro

 

[playa7]

you are right in what you are saying here but my point is that no one is going to place hundreds of air stones in their aquarium to replicate the conditions you had in your beaker.

exactly!...i dont think my Jar would appreciate the 24/7 bubble bath ...so keeping that in mind, we are talking about aquarium's with live fish, not just large vats of waste water that you could just shoot a kazzilion bubbles through 24/7. ...what would be the most reasonable way to raise the oxygen levels? a few air stones or a few power heads?

i have done zero research on this subject but it seems to me that "IITUFFTOBEATII" is probably right...that bubbles is the most efficient way of increasing oxygen levels...but, to gain that same effect as his tests no one in their right mind would use that much bubbles in there tank! and if they did i would ..jaccuzzi action!

-ROB

 

[Bderick67]

Well I read through this entire thread(now my head hurts). I'm not sure who should win the title of "Bubblemaster" but it was definetly an interesting read.

 

[Miguel]

Well I read through this entire thread(now my head hurts). I'm not sure who should win the title of "Bubblemaster" but it was definetly an interesting read.

Bubblemaster goes, surely, to Ituffveat Nova and Greenterra are, respectively, Lord of the Powerhead and Prince Venturi..

Me, I'm just a lawnmower, you can tell it by the way I walk

 

[greenterra]

Bubblemaster goes, surely, to Ituffveat Nova and Greenterra are, respectively, Lord of the Powerhead and Prince Venturi..

Me, I'm just a lawnmower, you can tell it by the way I walk

 

[Bderick67]

Bubblemaster goes, surely, to Ituffveat Nova and Greenterra are, respectively, Lord of the Powerhead and Prince Venturi..

Me, I'm just a lawnmower, you can tell it by the way I walk

 

[IITUFFTOBEATII]

you are right in what you are saying here but my point is that no one is going to place hundreds of air stones in their aquarium to replicate the conditions you had in your beaker.To put it in scale.
Say you introduced air at say 1L per minute to your 500ml beaker.
That is equivilent 1200L per minute in a 600L tank.
We want to see our fish so therefore you have to do it to scale.You state air stones are the most effective.Don't get me wrong.I still use them.However after doing some research on wastewater and airation I am not convinced.I now beleive a powerhead with a venturi is better.The reason why as it is creating fine bubbles.mixing and circulating at the same time.Something you did not do in your experiment.I have attached a link from an innovative company who is a world leader in this field.They produce both small / large air diffussers and also other oxygenating equipment.There product (the ASPIRO) surface mounted self-aspirating propeller type aerator is reguarded as one of the best systems in the world and leaves their diffussers which are better than bubblers for dead.This is why I stated if you used a blender in your beaker and not mixed it by hand it should have beat your airstone

When you look at the link,also look at the pdf file towards top right side.Click on it aswell to get a better look at the system.They are sold world wide.
http://www.patrickcharles.com/products/aeration/aspiro

again you are missing the point entirely............

the point is not to replicate the experiment in a tank. The experiment is to determine which method, bubble or agitation is better at aeration. The point is the air bubbles oxygenate better than just moving the water.

oh and the mix tests in the experiment were not done by hand, the were done with a lab stirrer, at 30 rpms, and at 300 rpms, thats blender fast, air stone still is more efficient.

I am done with this thread, those of you whom I have emailed have the facts in your hand, whether you cannot comprehend them or are too stubborn to change your mind: I dont care enought to argue about it anymore

 

[greenterra]

again you are missing the point entirely............

the point is not to replicate the experiment in a tank. The experiment is to determine which method, bubble or agitation is better at aeration. The point is the air bubbles oxygenate better than just moving the water.

I'm at a loss here.Correct me if I am wrong but didn't this thread start as why do people use air stones in their aro tanks?I'm not saying your tests are incorrect but as this was about air stones in the aquarium where we can't flood the whole tank with air bubbles like in your beaker.
Is an air stone better.In your beaker probably yes.In an aquarium where we have to reduce the amount of air pumped through and can't flood the tank with air bubbles reduces the surface to air ratio of the bubbles compared to the volume of water.As I said we want to see our fish.
You can not take the results from the beakers and simply apply it to the aquarium.As this thread was about an aquariam with air stones.The test should be done with that in mind.I think even Mythbusters would put it in some scale or try to replicate the conditions before they said either one of us was busted(lol)

 

[Nova 8]

You are missing the point entirely. Dissolved Oxygen CONCENTRATION is independent of volume. If the same experiment had been done on a larger scale, say 1000, or 1 million gallons, and the same proportion of bubbles was used the results would be the same.

You are mistaken to think that aerating water through bubbling is cheaper than surface agitation, it is actually quite a bit more expensive, and plants nearing capacity often use pure oxygen instead of plain air.

I do remeber stating that pure oxygen would change the results of this discussion.

exactly!...i dont think my Jar would appreciate the 24/7 bubble bath ...so keeping that in mind, we are talking about aquarium's with live fish, not just large vats of waste water that you could just shoot a kazzilion bubbles through 24/7. ...what would be the most reasonable way to raise the oxygen levels? a few air stones or a few power heads?

Exactly my point all along

again you are missing the point entirely............

the point is not to replicate the experiment in a tank. The experiment is to determine which method, bubble or agitation is better at aeration. The point is the air bubbles oxygenate better than just moving the water.

oh and the mix tests in the experiment were not done by hand, the were done with a lab stirrer, at 30 rpms, and at 300 rpms, thats blender fast, air stone still is more efficient.

I am done with this thread, those of you whom I have emailed have the facts in your hand, whether you cannot comprehend them or are too stubborn to change your mind: I dont care enought to argue about it anymore

It is you how are either cannot comprehend or are to stubborn the facts, I take great insult to the fact that you pass off hobbiest as common idiots.

In your words;

again you are missing the point entirely............

Yes YOU, the scientist, what I have said about your study is the ammount of bubbles in the water in a beaker is not the same % as it would be in a much larger aquarium, and this is what we are talking about here, unless Im mistaken and this is a sewage treatment forum, if so direct me to a fish forum. Also, I agree if you were pumping pure oxygen in to an aquarium it would be more effective the any other method, I don't know about you but I can't afford that.
Since you seem to be unable to understand this I have attached a simple diagram for you. You notice how the bubbles in the beaker take up most the room, but in the aquarium barely any THIS IS OUR POINT.

To recap, Aquariums & Oxygen, not beaker, not sewage plant O.K., and before you say it, no Im not wrong and if you think I am your the scientist PROVE IT.

 

[Miguel]

Guys...