alligator gar aggression

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Pejelajarto;5133456; said:
That is a fine opinion based on your experience but reality is that this is not regularly the case. When you have looked at them over a large sample size (over 20 fish) you will see quickly that this is not the case at all.

definitely agree...another example of an exception vs the general rule. it's great that it works in the case of that fish, so that's cool. in most cases, however, gators aren't necessarily pacified because they are full. i've had gators that are well-fed and still wailed on tankmates until they needed to be separated...this was the general trend.

floridagar;5133511; said:
1 we just bought an aliigator gar and it is not that aggressive. Sure it eyeballs other fish but so do my florida gars. my florida gar are more aggressive when they were younger too, 2 But as they got older and longer they don't really pay much attention to my other fish. I have a 6" peacock bass with them right now, And they do try and pick him off but he turns right back around and bites them. 3 In my opinion i think that if you have fast and aggresive fish in the tank you might have better luck.

4 I wont be surprised if he does try and eat other tank mates because im expecting it. I do keep my gar in community fish tanks, which they do have a chance to kill other fish. As they get older they will most likely try, 5 but having him for a week and hes perfectly acclimated he has not tried anything yet.

so much in this posting detracts from useful information and good husbandry practices when it comes to gars and even other fishes.

1 - see Richard's comment about evaluating what "aggressive" really is when it comes to gars and specifically gator gars. plus you just bought one...you're assuming you're seeing it's relative long-term behavior after a week???

2 - this is not always the case with predatory fishes, with gars, and usually not the case with gator gars...the OP is asking about gator gar aggression which is a far cry away from FLG aggression...that comparison contributes little.

3 - i don't even know where to start. again the definition of aggression should probably be better established in a lot of threads, but suggesting to purposely keep aggressive and faster fishes with gars is ridiculous and NOT the best for the gars. faster fishes will usually increase the broken back issues, and more aggressive fishes may do the same thing as well as cause other problems...while also out-competing for food.

4 - just because you're expecting it doesn't make it good husbandry (or that you're not surprised). good fishkeeping anticipates these issues well in advance and prevents them, it doesn't just allow for a lack of surprise when bad things happen. we all make mistakes in fishkeeping (i have made plenty), but with all the info we have available these days there is no need to put your fishes in unnecessary danger and be ok with it since you expect it and aren't surprised.

5 - reporting on fish behavior/general aggression after 1 week in the tank is hardly useful in this case.

:frog:

Pejelajarto;5133773; said:
What is Aggressive? That is something more need to think about and really just stop using that word. It really does not work with gars nor many other fish. Half the reasons for so called "aggression" are just poor husbandry the other half is poor understanding or anthropomorphizing of a species.

yes.
:mr-t:


--solomon
 
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E americanus, Pejelajarto agree with you. Gar keeping only briefly, but now I know that is Capricious.
 
E_americanus;5133990; said:
definitely agree...another example of an exception vs the general rule. it's great that it works in the case of that fish, so that's cool. in most cases, however, gators aren't necessarily pacified because they are full. i've had gators that are well-fed and still wailed on tankmates until they needed to be separated...this was the general trend.



so much in this posting detracts from useful information and good husbandry practices when it comes to gars and even other fishes.

1 - see Richard's comment about evaluating what "aggressive" really is when it comes to gars and specifically gator gars. plus you just bought one...you're assuming you're seeing it's relative long-term behavior after a week???

2 - this is not always the case with predatory fishes, with gars, and usually not the case with gator gars...the OP is asking about gator gar aggression which is a far cry away from FLG aggression...that comparison contributes little.

3 - i don't even know where to start. again the definition of aggression should probably be better established in a lot of threads, but suggesting to purposely keep aggressive and faster fishes with gars is ridiculous and NOT the best for the gars. faster fishes will usually increase the broken back issues, and more aggressive fishes may do the same thing as well as cause other problems...while also out-competing for food.

4 - just because you're expecting it doesn't make it good husbandry (or that you're not surprised). good fishkeeping anticipates these issues well in advance and prevents them, it doesn't just allow for a lack of surprise when bad things happen. we all make mistakes in fishkeeping (i have made plenty), but with all the info we have available these days there is no need to put your fishes in unnecessary danger and be ok with it since you expect it and aren't surprised.

5 - reporting on fish behavior/general aggression after 1 week in the tank is hardly useful in this case.

:frog:



yes.
:mr-t:


--solomon

yeah i will go my ways with the things i do, and i will have success but i agree listen to this dude ^ Lmao
 
Well, raised mine variably, and tried a few methods to capture the results over time. I am assuming the OP is concerned about when the appropriate time would be to get the gar into the indoor pond so he may enjoy its pressence in the aquarium for awhile prior.

Results also varied based on different methods utilized, although I found one more effective than others.

First observation, is no matter what food you raise them on, or how full they might be, they all become startlingly "aggressive" at or around the 2' marker--provided your definition of "aggressive" is being too dangerous to house with other fish of equal or lesser size.

First of all, at or around 8"-10" in length, the AG gets a nice growth boost in teeth. I have been nipped on the finger by a smaller one that left multiple bleeding holes (I counted 19 I could see)--so fast and sharp I did not even feel it. I was simply getting ready to rearrange some structure that day.

If a smaller one could cause that to my finger, you could only imagine what a larger one can potentially do to your other fish--especially their eyes--with a simple nipping.

With all of that said, I have successfully kept them in captivity with other fish until they reach that magic 24" mark, at which point the only tank-mates I had no issues with were large species of bass, catfish and tilapia. Cichlids quickly lose eyes and fins around an "aggressive" AG of that size. The catfish get covered in scratches, but nothing detrimental. Tilapia--especially large buttikoferi--have armored scales, and the AG usually only rips the fins.

The problem even with that, however, was fish bashing into the glass or structure when being chased by the AG, and damaging themselves that way. Be prepared to have nothing less than a 300g at this point, and be prepared to upgrade to something a few times that size if you wish to continue keeping them in an aquarium. You also need to keep large amounts of driftwood, rocks, etc, for your other fishes to take cover and stay out of the AG"s way.

Now, as for diet to "help" reduce their "aggression"--if you can call it that, here is what I found:

* First, feeding them live "anything" is a bad idea. I have found them to be quite hostile against anything that moves if they are fed live items from adolescence--including human hands. Even if they cannot fit a fish into their mouth, they will certainly try, and it will usually just end up dead with a lot of puncture wounds.

* Next, you can forget most prepared foods--except frozen, such as bloodworms, etc. I have never gotten one to successfully eat a pellet--although I am sure it is possible. I sure as heck haven't been that lucky.

* Next, you should probably learn how to go fishing if you haven't already, in order to keep an AG. Personally, I started collecting fish from the Gulf, such as croaker, trout, mullet, spadefish, etc--although, I am sure freshwater sunfish would be a good suppliment as well. I have found feeding them long rectangle-shape fish fillets to be the most desired diet of the AG, and in turn, doing so from 4"-5" range helps keep their violent-natured behaviors at bay for a longer period of time--since they will not view tank-mates as food (as much) if their only diet has been cut fillets. No matter what, though, once they surpass 20" or so, their actions become very unpredictable.

My advice for the OP would be to feed cut fillets to his AG's, and remove them to the pond at or around 18" just to be safe.

These guys start filling out around that length, and I don't care how "full" you keep them, nothing seems to tone down that 2' hostility size.

Additionally, I have also noticed them become even more hostile when their living space is overstocked due to food competition. AG are pretty slow, and if they must compete for food to quicker species, they will lose, and retaliate as a result.

I once had a 10" AG in a cichlid tank years ago (will never do that again), and he got a piece of food, and my Severum took it out of his mouth and ate it. The Gator Gar paused momentarily to calculate what just took place, and in retaliation, he swims slowly over to the Severum, and pretends nothing is going on. Once at the Sev's side, he lashes out and bites the Sev on the left pectoral fin, and tossed him around the tank, and bashed him into substrate for about 5 seconds, and spit his fin out and swam off seemingly irritated at the lost food.

AG's have a unique personality, and are really cool creatures. They do tame up as well, and some of mine enjoy being petted or hand-fed--be careful with that though! Just make sure you are properly prepared to take on the husbandry of these giants. These guys are capable of living in freshwater, brackish, or marine environments--although mine have seemed happier in saltier content and get much nicer patterns on their body.

Either way, good luck, and I hope this helps answer the question.
 
Stibnite;5146857; said:
* Next, you can forget most prepared foods--except frozen, such as bloodworms, etc. I have never gotten one to successfully eat a pellet--although I am sure it is possible. I sure as heck haven't been that lucky.

I've never had a Gator that did not take pellets.... Think I'm working with number 23 now..... Out of all of the Gars over the seven + species and hybrids.. Gators have always been the most simple to deal with when this issue arises.
 
Pejelajarto;5147574; said:
I've never had a Gator that did not take pellets.... Think I'm working with number 23 now..... Out of all of the Gars over the seven + species and hybrids.. Gators have always been the most simple to deal with when this issue arises.

That's interesting. I can get mine to bite them if it hits the water suddenly, but they just spit them out afterward. I did have a longnose gar which loved pellets, but never my gator gars.

The few times I made "attempts" to get them to eat pellets, I had starved them for nearly two weeks and they still wouldn't take them.

Guess they remain unpredictable on feeding habits then.

Of course, once they reach moderate size, pellets would be too costly as a dietary food source anyhow.
 
I have only been raising my AG for a year now and he's about 26". He lives with a 16" Florida Gar and two 12" Jaguars. the florida will only eat live so far but the AG will eat live, frozen or pellets. The AG is very tame, doesn't bother the other fish and will even allow brief petting; never attacked my hand when changing decorations but does investigate to see if there is a possibility of food. I did try feeding them Convicts but they are too fast for these slow guys but the florida has managed to get two over the past four months.

AG's are very passive hunters, as in ambush prediators, so they wait for food to come to them or will follow casually from behind and they will only eat what they can fit in their mouth, hence the jaguars are totally safe. The Jags even laid eggs are no one became really violent, just the odd nip here and there to say this is our side of the tank today.

I have read stories of gars going on the prowl in the community tank but they are not fast enough to be a serious danger [though younger Gars can boogie pretty good when needed]. but also stories of them living peacefully in a community tank, it all depends on the fish's personality. I would just put them together and monitor them for a few days to see how well they tolerate each other.

I am not an expert though, this is just my two cents worth. All in all, Gars are awesome and enjoyable fish.
 
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