Alligator Gar Dealer Prosecuted: fines up to $500,000 and up to five years in prison

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i didn't say that at all. how do you jump to this absurd conclusions? also, it's not prohibited to take them from the wild there.



nice cop out... and personal attacks. so, you're just going to call me names and NOT explain your position? :ROFL:



protect them? they're in a fish tank in japan, dude. they weren't being protected.



HAHAHAHA! yeah, i'm upset that usfw is doing their job, you got me! :screwy:

their job is to protect the wildlife and all they did was help poach it and ship it to japan. are you blind?

i posted this article because it's relative to the hobby in several ways. no agenda, i thought others here would find it interesting too.



MY hobby?!?! this is a hobbyist's website; monsterfishkeepers.com, did you forget?

are you always this sensitive? did your goldfish die this morning? i post an article and i get all this unwarranted negativity from someone who doesn't even care to justify their position. when you learn how to have a conversation like an adult, i'll treat you like one again. until then, go **** yourself.

did you know that people can actually disagree with each other without name calling and throwing temper tantrums?

Dude, Your argument is warped in SO many ways that I feel a need to point out some concerns to your "points"

1. Prior to actually "POACHING" the alligator gar what was this guys crime? Fishing without a valid Texas fishing license? What is the penalty in Texas for fishing without a permit?

I do understand that Texas has the most aggressive capital punishment in the USA, and if that is indeed the punishment in the state of Texas than I will side with you. My bet is that it is a misdemeanor with very little to NO actual Prison time associated with it. The monetary penalty is "probably" somewhere between $100 - $1,000. OK, so the ONLY thing that MAYBE the Feds could do at this point is hit him with a $1,000 fine, take his Gars and smack him on the butt asking him to kindly not do this again.

Please note that I said "MAYBE". It is stated that they were "GUIDES". Pretty unclear WTF that means! In MOST seaboard states you DO NOT NEED a fishing license to fish on a "charter" boat. For Cripes sake dude, here in Maryland, I do NOT buy a personal fishing license. I OWN my boat, and I buy a BOAT fishing license. I can 100% LEGALLY take the boats capacity of adults WITHOUT MD. fishing licenses out to fish. The creel and bag limits still apply to the non-licensed fishermen/ women on my boat, and it is MY responsibility as captain of the boat to maintain the rules of the water, not the un-licensed passengers.

IMO they have a serious legal battle on their hands if this dude was lead to believe that they were a legitimate boat charter. At that point he did NOTHING wrong and the case is thrown out. Furthermore ANYTHING to do with the "Illegal catch" is irrelevant insofar as a paid customer of the charter company (Police). It is TOTALLY different than under-cover police posing as drug dealers on a drug sting. The Police are posing as an "Illegal" Drug Dealer, your entrapment defense suffers in that you have no grounds to claim that you believed them to be "legal" drug dealers, you simply did NOT identify them as Cops! As long as there is "LEGAL" charter fishing in Texas, the Police and Feds are "POSING" as a "LEGAL CHARTER", the defendant has a fantastic chance of getting the case thrown out for entrapment. Than again Police in MD. do pose as "Legal" liquor store clerks and bust minors for attempting to buy C2H6O and get away with it in courts 100% of the time, so who knows?

2. A $1,000 fine and a pat on the backside would NOT keep this predator from REGULARLY continuing his poaching! He basically paid $1,000 for the education of exactly how and where to catch Monster Alligator Gars. Unlike a "seminar" he also learns a WEALTH of information on how the law enforcement works in the area and how best to avoid future confrontations. At this point with a $1,000 investment this dude has gained vast knowledge of fishing for Gar and law enforcement. At this point the Poacher DOES get a legal Texas fishing license and get's his own boat and crew for the operation.

3. Now the math: Said Poacher goes out two times a month for these monster Gar. A piss poor criminal probably won't get caught half the time, but for poops and grins say that this one does: At $15,000 per gar for success and -$1,000 getting busted, this pathetically poor criminal nets $14,000 per month. $160,000 per year is not too terrible.

By letting this creep "hang himself" you can flat out take this guy off the water for a decade, or at minimum put his *** SO far in debt that it would take dozens of consecutive successful poaching trips to ever see profit. Taking the financial gain out of the act of poaching is the only way that you will dissuade it.

I am an AVID fisherman and I think that the ginormous state of Texas does indeed have a Serious Poaching challenge. If your state government coddles to "the poor old poachers just trying to put food on the table for the family" in much the same way as the Maryland state government does than you can count on your "challenge" severely escalating into the level of THE DAILY NORM, as in the Chesapeake Bay.

This creep seriously needs it "PUBLICLY" broken off in him for all to see and set the proper precedent for how future poachers will be "treated".
 
Dude, Your argument is warped in SO many ways that I feel a need to point out some concerns to your "points"

1. Prior to actually "POACHING" the alligator gar what was this guys crime? Fishing without a valid Texas fishing license? What is the penalty in Texas for fishing without a permit?

I do understand that Texas has the most aggressive capital punishment in the USA, and if that is indeed the punishment in the state of Texas than I will side with you. My bet is that it is a misdemeanor with very little to NO actual Prison time associated with it. The monetary penalty is "probably" somewhere between $100 - $1,000. OK, so the ONLY thing that MAYBE the Feds could do at this point is hit him with a $1,000 fine, take his Gars and smack him on the butt asking him to kindly not do this again.

"Prior to actually "POACHING" the alligator gar what was this guys crime?"

^there was no crime prior to poaching. not having a license is what made taking the gar an act of poaching. the gar are perfectly legal to take with a fishing license. in this case, poaching = fishing without a license.

i don't know about texas, but here in pa it's a $90 citation for fishing without a license. the feds have nothing to do with this part because it's a state regulation, not FEDeral.

Please note that I said "MAYBE". It is stated that they were "GUIDES". Pretty unclear WTF that means! In MOST seaboard states you DO NOT NEED a fishing license to fish on a "charter" boat. For Cripes sake dude, here in Maryland, I do NOT buy a personal fishing license. I OWN my boat, and I buy a BOAT fishing license. I can 100% LEGALLY take the boats capacity of adults WITHOUT MD. fishing licenses out to fish. The creel and bag limits still apply to the non-licensed fishermen/ women on my boat, and it is MY responsibility as captain of the boat to maintain the rules of the water, not the un-licensed passengers.

so, we agree that the sting tactics were questionable.

2. A $1,000 fine and a pat on the backside would NOT keep this predator from REGULARLY continuing his poaching! He basically paid $1,000 for the education of exactly how and where to catch Monster Alligator Gars. Unlike a "seminar" he also learns a WEALTH of information on how the law enforcement works in the area and how best to avoid future confrontations. At this point with a $1,000 investment this dude has gained vast knowledge of fishing for Gar and law enforcement. At this point the Poacher DOES get a legal Texas fishing license and get's his own boat and crew for the operation.

just want to reiterate here: at this point, he's legit. not a poacher, simply a fisherman now because he has a license.

3. Now the math: Said Poacher goes out two times a month for these monster Gar. A piss poor criminal probably won't get caught half the time, but for poops and grins say that this one does: At $15,000 per gar for success and -$1,000 getting busted, this pathetically poor criminal nets $14,000 per month. $160,000 per year is not too terrible.

2 problems here:

1) he's got a license now so he's not poaching at all. gar are legal to catch with a license. there's nothing to bust him for. he can legally take one gar every day.

2) he got paid $15,000 for all four gar; $3,750 each. <--actually irrelevant, just wanted to point it out.

By letting this creep "hang himself" you can flat out take this guy off the water for a decade, or at minimum put his *** SO far in debt that it would take dozens of consecutive successful poaching trips to ever see profit. Taking the financial gain out of the act of poaching is the only way that you will dissuade it.

i'm sure you know this by now, but again, not poaching if you have a fishing license.

I am an AVID fisherman and I think that the ginormous state of Texas does indeed have a Serious Poaching challenge. If your state government coddles to "the poor old poachers just trying to put food on the table for the family" in much the same way as the Maryland state government does than you can count on your "challenge" severely escalating into the level of THE DAILY NORM, as in the Chesapeake Bay.

This creep seriously needs it "PUBLICLY" broken off in him for all to see and set the proper precedent for how future poachers will be "treated".

this is where we disagree.

yes he broke the law and deserves to be punished, i'm not challenging that.

these are my problems:

1) the method used to catch[trap] him. arguably illegal, and in my opinion, a waste (or poor use) of government resources and taxpayer dollars.

2) the draconian fines and jail time levied at him for driving fish from texas to florida.
***remember: fishing without a license was a minor state level offense. also, the charges of mislabeling the fish were dropped, therefore the fish were legally exported from florida to japan. so, the real trouble comes from moving the fish across state lines. i think $500,000 and 5 years in prison (even though these are the max) is way too extreme. the punishment does not fit the crime imo.

to put it into perspective: this guy skirted around paying for a few permits that would have probably only cost him about $100 combined. he's now facing a $500,000 fine and five years in prison. there's no way that if he would have stolen merchandise of equal value to the permit fees, that the punishment would be anywhere near as severe as this.
 
"Prior to actually "POACHING" the alligator gar what was this guys crime?"

^there was no crime prior to poaching. not having a license is what made taking the gar an act of poaching. the gar are perfectly legal to take with a fishing license. in this case, poaching = fishing without a license.

i don't know about texas, but here in pa it's a $90 citation for fishing without a license. the feds have nothing to do with this part because it's a state regulation, not FEDeral.



so, we agree that the sting tactics were questionable.



just want to reiterate here: at this point, he's legit. not a poacher, simply a fisherman now because he has a license.



2 problems here:

1) he's got a license now so he's not poaching at all. gar are legal to catch with a license. there's nothing to bust him for. he can legally take one gar every day.

2) he got paid $15,000 for all four gar; $3,750 each. <--actually irrelevant, just wanted to point it out.



i'm sure you know this by now, but again, not poaching if you have a fishing license.



this is where we disagree.

yes he broke the law and deserves to be punished, i'm not challenging that.

these are my problems:

1) the method used to catch[trap] him. arguably illegal, and in my opinion, a waste (or poor use) of government resources and taxpayer dollars.

2) the draconian fines and jail time levied at him for driving fish from texas to florida.
***remember: fishing without a license was a minor state level offense. also, the charges of mislabeling the fish were dropped, therefore the fish were legally exported from florida to japan. so, the real trouble comes from moving the fish across state lines. i think $500,000 and 5 years in prison (even though these are the max) is way too extreme. the punishment does not fit the crime imo.

to put it into perspective: this guy skirted around paying for a few permits that would have probably only cost him about $100 combined. he's now facing a $500,000 fine and five years in prison. there's no way that if he would have stolen merchandise of equal value to the permit fees, that the punishment would be anywhere near as severe as this.

You have entirely lost your mind and taken leave of your senses. The dollar amount is irrelevant. I do not necessarily believe that it should be, but it is.

No Way $100 is more severe: Try this one on: Way #
1. Hit someone over the head and take that $100 dollars. (WAY WORSE!)
2. Rob someones home of the $100 dollars. (Way worse again)
3. Kill someone for $100. (Good luck in court, Especially Texas!)

Steal $100,000 in a nice stealth computer hack on an entity, get a slap on the wrist and a primo job offer from the Government in the field of Data security and protection.

You are wrong my friend, the dollar amount in the "theft" does not make nearly as much difference as does the method of the theft!

We do agree that the method that the authorities used was questionable at best. I guess my question is does ANYONE think that ANY form of authority in the USA beyond using "questionable tactics"?

I have never failed to vote, so I feel entitled to state my extreme disappointment in what is said to be my "representation" by my duly elected Government officials. To be perfectly honest, the term that you use to describe the Texas fines: draconian is the exact term that I would use describe the US Government overall!

I hate to admit that I voted for the most draconian fruit loop from the state of Texas twice and was rewarded with the "Patriot Act". Now THAT is draconian!
 
You have entirely lost your mind and taken leave of your senses. The dollar amount is irrelevant. I do not necessarily believe that it should be, but it is.

the dollar amount isn't completely irrelevant because if the permits cost $1,000,000 the penalty would be much worse i'm sure.

No Way $100 is more severe: Try this one on: Way #
1. Hit someone over the head and take that $100 dollars. (WAY WORSE!)
2. Rob someones home of the $100 dollars. (Way worse again)
3. Kill someone for $100. (Good luck in court, Especially Texas!)

ok, but he did none of those things. i see your point but, a better example would be illegally parking your car in handicap spot... or doing renovations in your home without a building permit.


Steal $100,000 in a nice stealth computer hack on an entity, get a slap on the wrist and a primo job offer from the Government in the field of Data security and protection.

lol

You are wrong my friend, the dollar amount in the "theft" does not make nearly as much difference as does the method of the theft!

agree, but then the question becomes: how bad was his method?

nowhere near THAT bad imo.

We do agree that the method that the authorities used was questionable at best. I guess my question is does ANYONE think that ANY form of authority in the USA beyond using "questionable tactics"?

i'm with you there (i think), but these were exceptionally bad tactics is my point.
 
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