Altum Angelfish Pairing / Tank Rescape

stiker

Blue Tier VIP
MFK Member
Jun 9, 2014
434
731
390
Hello all,

I recently posted a threa titled “Pterophyllum Altum with species of Loricariidae” and had people asking me to post photos once the new tank aquascape was completed.

Background information:
The tank is a 6 x 2 x 2 with a 4 Ft sump. It was previously a blackwater tank but through water changes (and a little help from some matrix carbon) I will be converting it to a clear water tank. My tap water is thankfully very good for P. Altum settling at pH: 5 - 6 , kH: 0 - 1 and gH: 3. I will mostly likely buffer this a little to get a constant pH of around 6. About a week before the aquascape was completed (when I only had 5 Altums in the tank) two of them seemed to be pairing off, defending a corner of the tank, extending their fins fully and displaying to each other with full colour, as well as having their genital papilla starting to drop. I have included two videos if you are interested in seeing this. (They are not the greatest as I’m not a photographer / videographer.




Now onto the Aquascape.
Stage 1 of the aquascape has been completed. There is still more aquatic plants and emersed plants to be added to the wood above the water. There will also be an extra piece of driftwood added above the right hand side of the aquarium with more species of plants. The goal for this tank was to have the altums are the majority display fish, and then have smaller species as I believe it will be amazing to watch the zip around the tank, between the driftwood/ plants and when you actually spot them it will be exciting!

Current tank stocking:
8 x Pterophyllum Altum - 5 X F1 Rio Atabapo, 1 x WC Rio Atabapo, 2 x Wild Caught Rio Orinoco ( In the future I might replace the F1 group with more wild caught as I am much more a fan of the wild caught P. Altum
9 x Hemigrammus Bleheri

I have had fish in quarantine for the past two months that I wanted to add to this tank once it was completed. They will be added in small numbers at a time and I will asses how I feel about the tank once they are added. They are:
20 x Hemigrammus Bleheri will most likely only add 10 or 11 more to get me 20 in total.
20 x Corydoras Sterbai - May only add 15 or so
4 x Farlowella Vittata
6 x Dicrossus Filamentosus - Sold as 2 Males and 4 Females, so far seeing 4 displaying characteristic male lyretail. If all turn out to be males I will just add a few and possibly pick up a small group of Dicrossus Maculatus to add as well ( Maculatus was my first preference)
2 x Apistogramma Agassizii ‘Tefe Blue’ - 1 Male / 1 Female, I might not decide to add the female and instead add another 2 or so male apistogramma or another species.
The only other species I am still on the fence about adding is a small species of pleco (leaning towards L134)

4BFA0363-CB50-4437-8F66-D5DA7ABF2E55.jpeg
D5255AE1-AEBE-4FAD-BB64-4299928E0DBF.jpeg
5AE09A77-DD19-4C51-88F4-1FE87239DEAA.jpeg
The two fish that are on the right most side of the image are the two that were displaying pairing behaviours in the video above. As soon as they have been added back into the aquarium they have begun to display these behaviours again. When the 3 wild caught Altums were added as well the tank became a bit of a war zone (they have been in the tank for 36 hours) with everyone establishing their place in the hierarchy. Hopefully over the next few days this will settle down. As stated above please forgive the slight yellow colour of the water this was originally a blackwater tank and I am in the process of changing it to clear water. Also the “white River rocks“ in the middle of the tank will not be staying in the tank. They are just being used to hold the driftwood in place. We will remove them in around two weeks when we add some more aquatic plants / mosses.

I would love to hear your opinions on the “pairing Altums” as well as the new tank aquascape and any suggestions you guys have!
 

TwoTankAmin

Aimara
MFK Member
Oct 2, 2008
365
699
130
New York
I am curious where you acquired F1 Atabapo fish. There are not many people in the world who can spawn them. I have had altums for a while now. Wild ones are a trip to keep alive. I would suggest this is not the forum to get help with altums. You need to join at http://www.finarama.com/forum/index.php this site is dedicated to wild angels and about the best resource you will find for info and help with anything and everything Altum. Most of what I learned about them I learned there. several members there have managed to spawn their atums. But you can probably count the number of people on the planet who have spawned them on your fingers and toes ;-). i am not one of them. If you have not seen the vids below, enjoy, especially the second one.


 
  • Like
Reactions: stiker and robmcd

stiker

Blue Tier VIP
MFK Member
Jun 9, 2014
434
731
390
I am curious where you acquired F1 Atabapo fish. There are not many people in the world who can spawn them. I have had altums for a while now. Wild ones are a trip to keep alive. I would suggest this is not the forum to get help with altums. You need to join at http://www.finarama.com/forum/index.php this site is dedicated to wild angels and about the best resource you will find for info and help with anything and everything Altum. Most of what I learned about them I learned there. several members there have managed to spawn their atums. But you can probably count the number of people on the planet who have spawned them on your fingers and toes ;-). i am not one of them. If you have not seen the vids below, enjoy, especially the second one.


F1’s are around every so often. When I live most importers choose to import F1’s due to the fact they are not as sensitive. I don’t know if that is a good thing or bad thing as personally I prefer the wilds.
I have read quite a bit on finarama I do wish that the site was more active like it used to be though. Mostly just looking to share my experience / new aquascape as it progresses here :)
If I am honest, I don’t super want them to spawn at the moment as this is just my personal display aquarium and I rather them not be spawning/ going through the whole defending an area as I’m not a fan of the aggression that comes with it.
Would you have any photos of your Altums? If so I would love to see them :D
 
  • Like
Reactions: DrownedFishonFire

altums85

Peacock Bass
MFK Member
Dec 6, 2018
401
664
115
I prefer wilds over cb. They just look better even the way they swim and act looks diff. I can tell which is wild and which is cb from your pics. There was a member on here that bred them before and has an online site where he sell his cb juvies. I remember watching one of his video on the pair. And the ph is around like 4.5 for them to breed
 
  • Wow
Reactions: DrownedFishonFire

Cichlidgeek

Piranha
MFK Member
Apr 18, 2005
1,159
42
81
47
New Jersey
Congrats on the possible pairing up of your altums! That alone is something to be proud of!!
I, too, have a pair of altums. The larger one is a wild "Rio Atabapo" while the smaller one is a wild "Rio Vichada" and both fish are very large. The tank they're in is a 65-gallon tall, and they're alone in there with just one flagtail porthole catfish. To give you an idea of their size, the slate is 18 inches tall. My pH is just under 5 with a hardness of 1 or so. They eat Tetra Color Bits (of all things) like tic tacs, and their temp is maintained at about 86F. Every time I do a large water change, which lowers the temp a few degrees they go through the motions of spawning....even cleaning their slate.......but still no eggs!!! ERRREEERRRR so frustrating!!!

Anyway, cheers to your accomplishment......and wow that tank is just amazing to look at!!

--Brian

Altum_pair.jpg
 

stiker

Blue Tier VIP
MFK Member
Jun 9, 2014
434
731
390
I prefer wilds over cb. They just look better even the way they swim and act looks diff. I can tell which is wild and which is cb from your pics. There was a member on here that bred them before and has an online site where he sell his cb juvies. I remember watching one of his video on the pair. And the ph is around like 4.5 for them to breed
I agree with you. I might remove the two that are defending the area together and “pairing” (I use this term loosely, or possible all the cb and add 4 or so more wild caught.
I personally would prefer them not to spawn as aggression in the aquarium would explode. I already am experiencing aggression with them all which I am deeming is forming a hierarchy (they have all been together for 48 hours now) so I am hoping that will calm down.
 
  • Like
Reactions: DrownedFishonFire

stiker

Blue Tier VIP
MFK Member
Jun 9, 2014
434
731
390
Congrats on the possible pairing up of your altums! That alone is something to be proud of!!
I, too, have a pair of altums. The larger one is a wild "Rio Atabapo" while the smaller one is a wild "Rio Vichada" and both fish are very large. The tank they're in is a 65-gallon tall, and they're alone in there with just one flagtail porthole catfish. To give you an idea of their size, the slate is 18 inches tall. My pH is just under 5 with a hardness of 1 or so. They eat Tetra Color Bits (of all things) like tic tacs, and their temp is maintained at about 86F. Every time I do a large water change, which lowers the temp a few degrees they go through the motions of spawning....even cleaning their slate.......but still no eggs!!! ERRREEERRRR so frustrating!!!

Anyway, cheers to your accomplishment......and wow that tank is just amazing to look at!!

--Brian

View attachment 1430993
Your Altums are beautiful Brian,
Mine have been going through the whole motion for over a week now (when the aquascape was done 3 days ago they had to be removed to complete it they went back to their spawning motions within a few hours of being in the tank). As much of a crime as it may sound I would prefer if they didn’t as this is just for display and I would prefer not to have all the aggression.
the lowest my ph has gotten was 5 but for the most part it is generally around 5.5. I’m currently changing about 20% of water twice a week.

I appreciate your comments on the tank, I am currently really enjoying it :)
 

Cichlidgeek

Piranha
MFK Member
Apr 18, 2005
1,159
42
81
47
New Jersey
Your Altums are beautiful Brian,
Mine have been going through the whole motion for over a week now (when the aquascape was done 3 days ago they had to be removed to complete it they went back to their spawning motions within a few hours of being in the tank). As much of a crime as it may sound I would prefer if they didn’t as this is just for display and I would prefer not to have all the aggression.
the lowest my ph has gotten was 5 but for the most part it is generally around 5.5. I’m currently changing about 20% of water twice a week.

I appreciate your comments on the tank, I am currently really enjoying it :)
Thank you very much!
Yes, I totally hear you on the aggression.......what I failed to mention previously is that this "pair" beat the snot out of another very larger altum in that same tank. All was fine with the three of them in that tank until these two "paired off" then all hell broke loose on that third one. He/she eventually died in a hospital tank from the damage inflicted on it. Shameful. I wish I caught the aggression earlier, but it was like the flick of a switch when it turned on. Crazy!!
I've always felt that display tanks are for display, and breeding tanks are for breeding.
Best of luck to you on your adventure with these. They are awesome fish to experience keeping.
 
  • Wow
Reactions: DrownedFishonFire

stiker

Blue Tier VIP
MFK Member
Jun 9, 2014
434
731
390
Thank you very much!
Yes, I totally hear you on the aggression.......what I failed to mention previously is that this "pair" beat the snot out of another very larger altum in that same tank. All was fine with the three of them in that tank until these two "paired off" then all hell broke loose on that third one. He/she eventually died in a hospital tank from the damage inflicted on it. Shameful. I wish I caught the aggression earlier, but it was like the flick of a switch when it turned on. Crazy!!
I've always felt that display tanks are for display, and breeding tanks are for breeding.
Best of luck to you on your adventure with these. They are awesome fish to experience keeping.
I am sorry to hear they killed the third.
Definitely makes me worry about the aggression I am seeing from my group. I will be keeping a close eye. I might remove the pair to another aquarium and possibly add 4 more wild caught to have 10 P. Altum in total, but at this point I am unsure.
 

TwoTankAmin

Aimara
MFK Member
Oct 2, 2008
365
699
130
New York
My understanding is in the wild hey live in groups. Three is asking for trouble if there are both sexes present. I have had mine for a few years. I have lost two over the past year. I have never seen any mating behavior. I burned through a number of imports before I manged to keep some alive. I finally had a small group gaining size. They were getting big and then I had a heart attack almost a year ago. I had bypass surgery. It is hard to find folks who can do the proper water change on a lower pH tank. By the time I recovered only 6 made it out of 12.

I stopped trying to get pics because I keep them in very tea stained water and can never get a decent shot. I have pics of the prior tries fish and these when they were very small before I stained the water. Which really don't show off much. These are some growing out in a 29 gal/
 
  • Like
Reactions: decoy50
zoomed.com
hikariusa.com
aqaimports.com
Store