America land of the free(followers)

SharptoothBass

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Reputable breeders don't sell to pet shops, they're almost exclusively from puppy/kitten mills. Cutting down on the outlets for mills to sell their product is unlikely to increase the number of mills. Should increase demand for reputable breeders who actually make a fair attempt at vetting new owners.
Who told you that lie that reputable breeders don't sell to shops that's not true. This will in no way shape of form increase the demand for reputable breeders. Most people buying a puppy only want a good price. You think someone cares who the breeder is if they can get a French bulldog for a good price. I worked for the Washington Humane society for years and my sister was secretary for the director for years. The statements you are making are wishful thinking not facts. Also do you know how many animals were returned to us after we thought they were adopted to good homes. It doesn't matter if the dog comes from a rescue, pet store or backyard breeder. Some people will just not property take care of the animals. Some people who you think love their animals are weirdos who do un natural things with their pets. Most breeders are not reputable go to hobby or Craigslist right now and see how many reputable breeders you find. You'll find a bunch of unregistered dogs being bred and sold purely for profit with zero regulations. If a breeder doesn't register pups with a registry there is almost no way to regulate or track what's being sold or to whom they are being sold.bad-breeder-puppy-farm-in-ireland.jpg you think a pet shop could get away with these kind of conditions in the cellphone age HELL NO. But anyone with a basement could. People better wake up before it's to late. Also the Humane society no longer adopts dogs with a small $35 dollar fee they sell them just like everyone else. They also receive millions in donations very little of this actually goes to the care of animals. Most animals we took in were euthanized we did that every Wednesday. To many brown cats euthanize a few, to many big dogs euthanize a few, to many loud dogs euthanize a few. Most of the money goes to the big wigs. Now the Humane society can sell dogs but not the owners. How long do you think pet stores will last with no pets to sell the fish industry has been on the decline for years. Online sales of dry goods and supplies are at a all time high. These people are really pushing for the end of pets and you guys are supporting it.
 
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SharptoothBass

Goliath Tigerfish
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Reputable breeders don't sell to pet shops, they're almost exclusively from puppy/kitten mills. Cutting down on the outlets for mills to sell their product is unlikely to increase the number of mills. Should increase demand for reputable breeders who actually make a fair attempt at vetting new owners.
https://www.hoobly.com/s/pets-animals~dogs-puppies~french-bulldog?start=190 I stopped at page 20 do you think 20 pages of backyard breeders care who buy those dogs no they just want to sell them. And this is only one breed of dogs how will stopping pet stores from selling dogs stop this. This was just another money grab and chess move to legally stop the sell of pets.
 

jjohnwm

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I have a brother who is a cop; his personality, outlook on life and general opinion of humanity has been drastically altered over the years, and it is a direct result of the fact that he deals largely with...for lack of a better term...the scum of the earth. When your interactions with people are heavily weighted towards the kind of people he deals with, it's inevitable that your perception of people will be altered. He expects the worst of everybody because almost everybody he deals with is the worst.

There are some good people around; but good people generally don't come in contact with cops and so they don't have as much of an effect on the cops' view of people and life in general.

Similarly, when you have experience working for the Humane Society, you get a lot of exposure to the sort of people...breeders, owners, whoever...whose evil deeds and faults bring the HS into the picture when animals are involved. But, again, your opinions and perceptions are skewed towards the negative; the many, many people who own dogs and cats and treat them like beloved family members don't show up on your radar nearly as much as the POS-types who attract your attention.

What is the answer here? Just keep on keeping on, with large chain pet stores selling the puppies that originate in puppy mills? Or outlaw that, and suffer the kind of damage to the pet industry that you foresee? Laws...both good and bad...are all politically motivated; politicians don't pass new legislation because they give a crap about puppies, kids, the elderly, the environment or anything else; they pass laws that they hope will make them look good to their constituents in the short term so they get re-elected; long-term effects are impossible to accurately foretell and in truth aren't really a concern.

I'm not pointing a finger at anyone here and saying "You're wrong!"...but neither can I say to anyone that they are correct either. I just don't know; being closer to the problem makes some folks think their opinions are much more factually-based and therefore more valid and accurate...but I think that they are actually a bit more "snow-blind" to the problem than they realize.
 
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SharptoothBass

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I have a brother who is a cop; his personality, outlook on life and general opinion of humanity has been drastically altered over the years, and it is a direct result of the fact that he deals largely with...for lack of a better term...the scum of the earth. When your interactions with people are heavily weighted towards the kind of people he deals with, it's inevitable that your perception of people will be altered. He expects the worst of everybody because almost everybody he deals with is the worst.

There are some good people around; but good people generally don't come in contact with cops and so they don't have as much of an effect on the cops' view of people and life in general.

Similarly, when you have experience working for the Humane Society, you get a lot of exposure to the sort of people...breeders, owners, whoever...whose evil deeds and faults bring the HS into the picture when animals are involved. But, again, your opinions and perceptions are skewed towards the negative; the many, many people who own dogs and cats and treat them like beloved family members don't show up on your radar nearly as much as the POS-types who attract your attention.

What is the answer here? Just keep on keeping on, with large chain pet stores selling the puppies that originate in puppy mills? Or outlaw that, and suffer the kind of damage to the pet industry that you foresee? Laws...both good and bad...are all politically motivated; politicians don't pass new legislation because they give a crap about puppies, kids, the elderly, the environment or anything else; they pass laws that they hope will make them look good to their constituents in the short term so they get re-elected; long-term effects are impossible to accurately foretell and in truth aren't really a concern.

I'm not pointing a finger at anyone here and saying "You're wrong!"...but neither can I say to anyone that they are correct either. I just don't know; being closer to the problem makes some folks think their opinions are much more factually-based and therefore more valid and accurate...but I think that they are actually a bit more "snow-blind" to the problem than they realize.
My views haven't been changed by all the bad because I know good pet owners and breeders. I'm the reason we stopped killing pitbulls in D.C. because the dogs are not bad the owners are. That's my whole point good people shouldn't lose the opportunity to own animals because of a few bad owners. Our policy was to kill every pitbull we took in without any temperament testing even puppies. We fought for years me and a childhood friend who worked there with me. It wasn't until a guy from Boston named Scott came and took over the Humane law enforcement side of the shelter that someone finally listened. Before that we would literally intake a pregnant pitbull vet her care for her let her have her puppies raise them until they were weaned off of milk then kill the mom and the pups this policy was created and enforced by so called animal lovers. I feel good people shouldn't suffer because of others actions. There are evil, weird and stupid people on both sides of the fence. I literally had to take complaint calls every day some were horrible cases of animal cruelty, some were just Karen's trying to dictate how their neighbors kept their animals. We got calls every winter for a plumbing company who people would complain they were keeping their huskys out in the cold when the dog's actually had heated doghouses and preferred laying out on the concrete when it was sunny even when it was freezing cold. I've taken calls from friendship animal hospital wanting to know if we could trace a number because a woman called and wanted to know if her dog and cat could catch her std because she let them lick peanut butter out of her so don't get confused just because someone claims to be a animal lover. This law does nothing to truly help animals it just hurts store owners and allows the Humane society to take their clients. I give up because American's have become sheep no point of wasting my breath we'll see how things end up in the future.
 

altums85

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Didn't they try to ban importing fish or something last time? But lol @ land of the free.
 

SharptoothBass

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Didn't they try to ban importing fish or something last time? But lol @ land of the free.
That's because for the most part fish are still considered property we were not allowed to take fish from people. But that's changing because people are pushing the fish have feelings too. It's definitely coming I still have friends who work there. I don't keep up with it all like used to because people don't care anymore they just want to be in line with what everyone else is doing. We cry about domestic man made animals meanwhile people are still flying to Africa to kill lions for the fun of it.
 

jjohnwm

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My views haven't been changed by all the bad...
Yeah...my brother the cop thinks so as well...

This law might hurt pet shops, no question. Maybe that's good; if a pet store (I said "if" so don't jump down my throat) has a meaningful percentage of its profit margin generated by puppy-mill-sourced livestock, then I hope it does hurt them. Will that hurt all parts of the pet industry, including the fish trade? I don't know; maybe? Is there a better solution? I don't know; maybe?

But I don't believe that it will keep good people from owning or sourcing dogs. I have owned dogs all my life; I have never bought a dog, although I have paid adoption fees for some dogs received from local humane societies. I make a donation to my local humane society every Christmas; specifically to the two wonderfully selfless and committed people who operate it. But, I don't need "designer" dogs; my dogs, with the exception of a purebred I inherited from my father when he passed away, have all been shelter dogs, rescue dogs, etc. and they have all been mutts...and every dog I have ever owned has always been the best dog I ever owned.

If people must have a purebred black such-and-such dog because it matches their furniture...or another because it is the trendy breed that their favourite pop-star owns...or a Corgi because the Queen liked them...well, I don't really care if they don't get one at all; I suspect there's a good chance that dog (meaning the one they don't have!) is likely better off without them. If a person truly loves dogs and wants to get a dog...there will always be multiple ways and opportunities. If a person wanders into a petstore and buys a dog on a whim...and this law prevents that...I'm not going to say a thing.
 

wednesday13

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IMO… it doesn’t matter if fish/animals are “pets” or “property”… “They” take what they want regardless, with force, when they want too, with pre issued warrants lol… Sure, no one likes animal abuse. Its all connected tho. Have to let people have the right to do what they want good or bad regardless of intelligence or status.
Ive been on the tail end of these laws and its not fun to be a part of. Having ur rights and property stripped from you for no good reason is ridiculous. I agree with SharptoothBass SharptoothBass , more laws and overreach only drive the “black market” further.
If you think ur only 1 person, with one fish/pet and nothing will happen. Think again… thats all it takes and ur already on the list.
I was treated like a scum bag felon and put through the ringer for owning a fish i bought legally 6yrs prior.
Hold on to yer butts 😂… it only gets worse
 

wednesday13

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That's because for the most part fish are still considered property we were not allowed to take fish from people. But that's changing because people are pushing the fish have feelings too. It's definitely coming I still have friends who work there. I don't keep up with it all like used to because people don't care anymore they just want to be in line with what everyone else is doing. We cry about domestic man made animals meanwhile people are still flying to Africa to kill lions for the fun of it.
Property is easily seized with a pre issued warrant… any state can change their invasive/injurous list at any time to suit their needs.
 

SharptoothBass

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Property is easily seized with a pre issued warrant… any state can change their invasive/injurous list at any time to suit their needs.
I feel you I'm only speaking for the Humane society side of the issue that's not who got you it was fish and game if I'm not mistaken they have a longer reach and more tools in the toolbox than we had. We had to lean on local police and government they are the police and the government. I definitely get where your coming from I just wish others would before it's to late. People support causes playing follow the leader and a lot of them don't truly understand what they are supporting.
 
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