Anaerobic Bacteria

[Grinch]

thx for the explanation i didnt know anaerobic bbtake longer to establish than aerobic.

What other parameters would you look for ?

Please ask a more specific question. Parameters relative to what?

 

[jaws7777]

Please ask a more specific question. Parameters relative to what?

"Depending on you water parameters and your filter setup, you may or may not need to add something to the filter to act as an electron donor. The alcohol being discussed in this thread translates to carbon as an electron donor, but mind you don't pickle your filter."

 

[Grinch]

"Depending on you water parameters and your filter setup, you may or may not need to add something to the filter to act as an electron donor. The alcohol being discussed in this thread translates to carbon as an electron donor, but mind you don't pickle your filter."

Ah, I see. Sorry. This is a very complicated issue that I will not attempt to explain fully. Google "Redox reactions" for more information and I will try to summarize/generalize for the fish keeper here:

To complete reduction of NO3 to N2 you need an electron donor. An electron donor is a molecule with positive oxidation state (not to be confused with positive charge). In a fish tank, this translates to needing dissolved organic matter (DOM) or dissolved gasses, though it's possible that solid waste could contribute in a deep bed of "soil". The potential of a given molecule to act as an electron donor changes depending on a variety of factors including the types of available chemical substrates and the pH. You can estimate the potential of your water to donate electrons by measuring the Oxidation Reduction Potential (ORP; sometimes called pE) of your tank water. TYPICALLY, denitrification requires ORP in the +/-50 range. If you are outside that range in your tank water, no dentrification will occur without the addition of electron donors. TYPICALLY, nitrification occurs in the ORP range +100 to +350. Note that the typical ORP ranges do not overlap, but the exact range for these biological processes depends to a great degree on pH.

Google "redox ladder pH" for more on this.

 

[tarheel96]

Are you testing with fish in the tank yet ? If not how did you come to those results ?

I think I'll add fish or a fish for this next test. I'm not sure what it'll be yet though. Ideally it would have a large bioload without needing much space (40 gallons).

I've been using a pre-mixed stock solution of potassium nitrate (KNO3) to set the nitrate levels. I've used this in planted tanks. It's mixed so that each 1 ml increases nitrate level by 1 ppm in 10 gallons so it's easy to keep up with how much nitrate I'm adding. Then, I use the API test kit to confirm and test the nitrate level. As it approaches zero, I add more nitrate and then watch the level with the API kit. If nitrate continues to fall then more carbon than necessary was used.

I added the level of vodka based on a suggestion by Mark for sucrose at a lower nitrate level. It was very close. BIG-G I say ethanol but I did use 90 proof vodka. The formulas I've seen are for ethanol and methanol at wastewater treatment plants. I believe 15-20 ml 90 proof vodka ~ 6-8 mg ethanol.

I'll include the link to the paper which includes those formulas for heterotrophic denitrification with different carbon sources and some information on autotrophic denitrification (sulfur denitrifiers).

I also add monopotassium phosphate (KH2PO4) to keep some phosphate in the water. My water is barely more than distilled water so I build it up with KHCO3, CaCl, MgSO4 or MgCl and trace elements.

Without fish there's been no ammonia in the system and that means no nitrification. There are positives and negatives to this. It's been pointed out that nitrifying bacteria can be responsible for removing a good amount of oxygen ... about 4 mg/L O2 per 1 mg/L NH3. I'll see what kind of difference it might make.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3880027/?report=reader#!po=28.3784

 

[Hendre]

Grinch great explanation!

From what I've seen, chaining this right after your bio can give the best results with the very low o2 levels present then. You can throw it much better flow rates this way

J jaws7777 I'll see if I can ask, primary aim of the talk is career options and studies but I'm definitely going to chat fish. This guy has the best discus for miles.

tarheel96 in the method I stated a small amount of sugar is added as a food source to help start the filter, ethanol dosing is very frequent in saltwater.

 

[jaws7777]

Ok im not gonna jump to conclusions but heres todays test along with yesterdays.
Today

Yesterday


Im not sure if its my eyes or the lighting but nitrates may have gone down a smidge.

I looked over my notes and i feel like something is definitly happening. Nitrates at the time of wc have been consistently red its hard for me to tell the differences but anywhere from 40 to 80ppm and today being 4 days out should they should absolutley be red.

Now the one thing thats been different the past week or so is feedings. I normally feed more chopped tilapia than pellets as i feel the polypterus digest it better (much less solid waste) BUT this past week i only fed pellets...could be the difference in food ? Normally its 2 or 3 days tilapia and 1 day pellets.

However back in april i did do the same (pellets only for a week) and as per my notes nitrates hit 40 to 60 ppm so im not sure what to make of it.

 

[duanes]

The idea that protein skimmers don't work on fresh water is total BS, as my video and photos show. And because fractionation occurs naturally with wave action, and in flowing steams. We've all seen foam from waves on a beach (natural fractionation)
That said, I have never had a manufactured commercially available skimmer (That I have tried) actually work, too small a chamber and too wimpy a flow,
The one in my video is 4 ft tall, and 6" in diameter.
My DIY versions all worked, but flow has to be strong enough.
I use minimum 2000 + mph pumps to get enough flow and create enough agitation in the air water interface to work.
Most aquarists aren't willing to run that kind of flow, so their fractionates fail to produce foam, and then they claim it doesn't work.

 

[J. H.]

The idea that protein skimmers don't work on fresh water is total BS, as my video and photos show. And because fractionation occurs naturally with wave action, and in flowing steams. We've all seen foam from waves on a beach (natural fractionation)
That said, I have never had a manufactured commercially available skimmer (That I have tried) actually work, too small a chamber and too wimpy a flow,
The one in my video is 4 ft tall, and 6" in diameter.
My DIY versions all worked, but flow has to be strong enough.
I use minimum 2000 + mph pumps to get enough flow and create enough agitation in the air water interface to work.
Most aquarists aren't willing to run that kind of flow, so their fractionates fail to produce foam, and then they claim it doesn't work.

2000gph translates into 100w for me lol

 

[jaws7777]

Looks like these orp meters are a little pricey.

 

[jaws7777]

The idea that protein skimmers don't work on fresh water is total BS, as my video and photos show. And because fractionation occurs naturally with wave action, and in flowing steams. We've all seen foam from waves on a beach (natural fractionation)
That said, I have never had a manufactured commercially available skimmer (That I have tried) actually work, too small a chamber and too wimpy a flow,
The one in my video is 4 ft tall, and 6" in diameter.
My DIY versions all worked, but flow has to be strong enough.
I use minimum 2000 + mph pumps to get enough flow and create enough agitation in the air water interface to work.
Most aquarists aren't willing to run that kind of flow, so their fractionates fail to produce foam, and then they claim it doesn't work.

Oh i never doubted yours worked just that allot of people said theres didnt. Thx foe explaining why