i dont wanna reply to everything you wrote coz i am not interested in any sort of an argument. i just want to ask you one question as to why would the fish not stop growing all its life. everything stops growing at a certain stage in its life. it dosent mean the longer you live the bigger your grow, right? its just a question. why wouldnt gars stop growing after a certain point??pk705;4679956; said:
And into the big tank the Armatus go...
- Thread starter xander
- Start date
MyGiants;4679730; said:
nothing i said was intended to be offensive. the series of questions was posted in the hope that it would (a) give me a better understanding of why you made those statements, (b) open the way for a good discssion on gar sizes/growth or (c), make you do some research and realise there was no solid grounds for your statements.
pk705;4679956; said:1. Cuban gar (and other, smaller species).
i have 3 cubans, *ranging from 22-25", 2 longnose gars, * 24-26", 2 florida gars, * 14" to 20".
2. Imports of 4 footers have been reported, max captive size unknown (has simply not been kept in captivity for long enough for anybody to say for certain).
between solomon (e_americanus) and myself, we've had roughly 5-6 cuban gar adult specimens (at least 5 years of age - Solomons are roughly the same size and is 7 years old) to gauge by. only one was 30", the rest were/are all between 20 and 25" in size. i too have heard reports of these 4' specimens, but it ends there. have also heard of several 3' cubans, BUT these specimens were all raised in ponds from young, so one cannot draw much comparisons between those fishes and mine.
3. Dunno, 5 years?
2 of my cubans are estimated to be 5years, the last is reported to be 15years (word of mouth from previous owner)...the rest of the fish are at least 2-3 years of age, save for the 14" florida gar.
4. They live to be over 30 years old in the end and grow their entire
lifetime, albeit they do most likely slow down after a few years.
where did you get the info regarding the 30 year max age? is this with regards to captive of wild fish? i'm not "testing" you or whatever, i'm genuinely interested in the topic as well.
if im not wrong, most captive gars slow down greatly after 2 years of age. there hasn't been any noticable growth in my gars over the last couple of years. upon hitting these sizes at these ages (again, save the 14" florida), any growth is pretty negligable. i am not going to have 3, 4' cubans in 5, 10, or even 20 years.
5. 6x4x2 if I remember correctly, making it 1296 liters or 341 gallons based on outside dimensions, volume of water more likely around 280 gallons.
360 actually, and @ 90% full it's 323gals of water. but that really was not the point of the question
6. Nothing, they are still growing, they won't ever truly stop, or at least in theory, should not.
in theory, yes. in practise, whatever growth they have from here on out, will not make much of a difference.
I apologize for having a dick answer to a dick reply. It is just that in my part of the world, fish keeping practices are somewhat different. That is not to say that I condone the practice of cramming fish in any way, they are your fish and you are free to do as you wish. And the tank is actually big enough for the fish at the moment in my opinion, if they keep growing, I am sure they will be provided with a suitable alternative.
it was not a dick answer. if anything, it was the reply i was hoping giants would give, so as to show me that there was some form of knowledge, thought or reason for his initial posts.
with regards to cramming fish, i completely agree. but that's for another discussion as as you said, the tank is big enough right now. (the third, cramped looking shot was taken for dramatic effect)
What I am against though is ironically worded nasty replies to somebody that brings up the potential problems of a set-up. I thought this was a discussion board where criticism, both positive and negative was encouraged. I understand that this is the picture part of the forum, however, if you wish to receive only positive feedback, please state so at the beginning. This is especially worrying coming from a moderator.
believe i replied to this in the previous paragraph. but i will make myself clear. the reason for the questions asked was not to be nasty. it was a simple way of (a) helping me better understand the reason for giants' post, (b) opening the way to the discussion on gar sizes we had further up or (c), making him do some research and seeing there is not solid grounds for his statements.
if he had questioned or pointed out the less than advisable armatus - gar combo, i would have taken it in stride (as i have already done in this thread) and/or elaborated on my reasons for believing the combo was safe to attempt.
Finally, to conclude, firstly, I apologize for the slight wall of text above. Secondly, very nice fish. This is a photo thread after all and it would be extremely rude not to comment on the spectacular quality of both the fish and pics. Thirdly, this is not meant as an assault on anybody. It is just that mfk seems to be divided between "The next level" and the rest lately with no dialogue in between. Perhaps this is not the most appropriate thread to bring it up and if so, I apologize for disturbing the flow of the thread.
it is alright, i'd rather have a good discussion like this than 20 posts commenting how im taking it to the next level (complimentry comments are very nice, but i very much do not wish to be part of this next level stuff). besides, being the thread starter does not give me the right to decide the ebb and flow of the thread.
thanks for the compliments
i too do not enjoy the division and personally fin d some people's (on and off the forums) idea of "the next level" ridiculous. i dont see where you could have gotten the idea that i was for this "next level" nonsense
everything said, i am not offended, pissed or annoyed about anything. i only sometimes wish people would put more thought/research into their posts.
Once again, sorry for the long reply.
in green
Din knw u got 3 cubans, if u can get hold of smaller specimens, let me knw ok?
V nice tank, I supposed the armatus will take care of themselves and they grow fast
V nice tank, I supposed the armatus will take care of themselves and they grow fast
Actually, if we don't control our eating habbit, the longer we live, the bigger we grow, whether it's vertically or horizontallysmartlove_518;4680166; said:
xander;4680262; said:i read somewhere that we actually grow a little every night, gravity just shrinks us during the day...not sure im it's accurate info though
I heard that too. If it's true, it's because our weight compresses our spinal disks (which are mostly full of liquid). When we sleep (and lie down for 6+ hours at a time), they can expand again.
I guess I can't control how you view my statement. All I said "looks like a bigger tanks in your future" and you replied not for 5-10 years. Well 5-10 years is in the future. I've kept gars I know how big they can get. Your spotted and longnose can reach 3'+. Your Cuban can reach 6'+. Will yours get that big? don't know. How long will that take, who knows. That is in the furture if you still have them in 5 years. I do know that in 5 years they will be bigger if you feed them well keep the water optimum for them.xander;4680216; said:
xander;4680262; said:i read somewhere that we actually grow a little every night, gravity just shrinks us during the day...not sure im it's accurate info though
We "grow" all the time, if we define growth as multiplication of cells... If we define it as net gain of cells, we grow up till about 18-20 years of age. We "shrink" during the day because of the pressure on our spine - I don't think any of the cells actually die, so not strictly growth during the night. When we sleep the effects of gravity are negligible and our spine can expand again... And that's the reason why I've been getting smaller haha.
The 30+ years figure - I don't know where I've heard it, I just remember the figure from somewhere. Doesn't seem too far fetched, considering that fishbase quotes the population doubling time of 14 years.
As for growth, according to http://afsjournals.org/doi/abs/10.1577/1548-8659(1974)103<402:AAGOLG>2.0.CO;2?journalCode=fitr longnose gars don't stop growing till 8 years old, smaller increments probably still happen later. Cited growth for a wild longnose from the article is 3' after 8 years.
Keeping in mind that fishbase quotes the max for cuban gar to be 6'8" and 3'4" as average as well as the fact that they are in the same family as alligator gar, large imports sound plausible. Not having purchased such a gar, I cannot speak about irrefutable proof. Perhaps it is just my imagination running a bit wild though - imagine such a beast
.In any case, you should be fine for a long time to come. Not taking a jab at you, just venting a bit. Sorry for doing so in an actually good thread. Keep the pics coming
.Good luck with the combo, long term. Looks awesome
.smartlove_518 - many cold blooded organisms have been known to have their growth limited by the environment rather than age. Growth always comes down to 1 limiting factor, in humans in the developed world that is usually down to genetics, since we have good food and environment that enables our growth. In the wild, it usually has more to do with food availability and in the case of fish water quality.
EDIT - MyGiants - I can see an upgrade far more necessary in your case
.