Angels with bent fins

[Mythic Figment]

So I bought 24 baby Philly blue angels (pea sized) online about a month or so ago. They were housed in a 20 high until they were about dime sized, then moved into a 55 (recommendation of the online breeder when he found out what tanks I had available). Well I have noticed more than half of them have severe bends in their fins (ventral and dorsal mostly, but a couple of anal fins too). And I mean severe......like lightning bolt shape.

I have been reading up on the topic online, but can't figure out if this is a genetics, water quality or crowding issue. I do two 30% water changes a week with gravel vaccing during only one of those changes. Also, half the angels have been on a massive growth spirt and are just under quarter size while the other half are smaller at just under nickel size. I would assume this is due to semi-aggressive feeding behavior and some are just eating more than others, or is this something to be concerned about?

I am a bit upset by this as I want to breed a pair of Philly blues and almost all the ones who are clearly going to be blue have this bending of the fins and if it is genetics, I will not be breeding them.

I will post some pics tomorrow when it is light out as my iPad doesn't have flash on the camera.


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[Mythic Figment]

Here are the pics.

First one is of a dorsal fin that is twisted at the top. Might be hard to see.

Second is of the size difference. It's the biggest angel in the tank and he seems to enjoy hanging out with all the smallest ones.

Third is the worst angel in the tank. He would be a beautiful smoky blue, but his ventral fins are jagged and his dorsal is seriously twisted on the entire top half.

Sorry if the pics aren't great. It's the best I have. Somehow I missed a pure blue angel that is in perfect condition, so hopefully it grows and pairs with another angel. They are not all Philly blues, but I know they all carry the gene.


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[Mythic Figment]

Bump


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[decoy50]

Several things can cause the fin issues you are seeing:
1. Genetics - when you buy angels so small, the breeder cannot cull out these undesirable fish. Not the fault of the dealer - most spawns have runts & deformed fish. As the fry grow, these deformities are seen and the fish culled. Its why people buy so many juvie fish, to hand select the best ones.
2. Water Quality - 30% twice weekly WC might be a little low. Especially with gravel. I grow out juvies in barebottom tabks Until they are ready for my display. This lets me do large, greater than 50% WC quickly & often.
3. Water flow/current - Angels aren't the best swimmers. When they are small(dime size and under) their fins are forming. If they have to struggle against the current in your tank, it can bend the hard rays of the fins. Many breeders use sponge filters in their fry/juvie tanks until the fish put on some size.

Hope this helps!

 

[Mythic Figment]

Several things can cause the fin issues you are seeing:
1. Genetics - when you buy angels so small, the breeder cannot cull out these undesirable fish. Not the fault of the dealer - most spawns have runts & deformed fish. As the fry grow, these deformities are seen and the fish culled. Its why people buy so many juvie fish, to hand select the best ones.
2. Water Quality - 30% twice weekly WC might be a little low. Especially with gravel. I grow out juvies in barebottom tabks Until they are ready for my display. This lets me do large, greater than 50% WC quickly & often.
3. Water flow/current - Angels aren't the best swimmers. When they are small(dime size and under) their fins are forming. If they have to struggle against the current in your tank, it can bend the hard rays of the fins. Many breeders use sponge filters in their fry/juvie tanks until the fish put on some size.

Hope this helps!

1) Understandable. I would not be upset with my vendor as that makes perfect sense because I got them so small.

2) I will increase the water change amount to 50% twice weekly. Their water tests just fine even after 3-4 days of the same water. Ammonia and nitrites are zero with nitrates barely registering. pH is about 7.4 immediately after a water change, but drops to about 7.1-7.2 after 6-8 hours. Temp is a constant 81 degrees.

3) They are in the 55 with an AquaClear 70 set in the lowest flow setting and with a pre filter attached for extra bio filtration.

Will it narrow it down to genetics because some have the bent fins, but others are just fine. I am noticing that almost all of the blue inches have the bent fins (2 are perfectly fine out of about 10 I am certain have blue) while most of the others without blue are fine. There are maybe 2-3 out of the remaining 12 that have bent fins. Is it possibly that the blues are a major carrier of a bent fin gene? And is there anything I can try to see if the fins will straighten out?


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[Mythic Figment]

Bump


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[strollo22]

Only time will tell if the fins will straighten. It's most likely generic. In the mean time, I would put the "defective" ones back in the small tank to see what happens


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[Mythic Figment]

Only time will tell if the fins will straighten. It's most likely generic. In the mean time, I would put the "defective" ones back in the small tank to see what happens


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I would, but it became my hospital/QT tank once they were moved to the 55. There is currently a 2" super red severum serving his 4 weeks in that tank before he heads to the 125 and he still has 2 weeks to go.


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[Mythic Figment]

Well I will keep an eye on them and hope the extra space of the 55 will unkink those fins. If no improvement happens in a month, I will have to start culling or giving them away to homes for free.


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[decoy50]

From your further description, it sounds like genetics to me. Its not only with the blue angels, I bought a group of high coverage kois from a reputable dealer a couple years ago and they had the same problem. Your water flow sounds good - I use the same AQ70 on low flow and your water quality sounds good.

When I buy juvie angels, I usually go no smaller than quarter size. Even then, I would say I have to cull at least a third of them due to fin issues. With angels, their look is 100% about the fins IMO. I have never had a fish' fins straighten back out if the hard rays are bent. That is basically permanent. Its like a broken bone healing w/o the aid of a cast.