Another lungfish!

[blackthumb]

Hi everyone,back again with some updated info on the prospective new addition to my small lf collection.
I went to see this fish as it was just 10 miles away and it looks good,but the markings are anything but spectacular,it's healthy and shares it's home with a 30" long arro.(been together for 6 years he said)
One question i had is how often he fed this lf because it didn't look very large in cross section,he replied every day and only pellets. Some of you guys have stated you also feed pellets but aren't they just a supplement?
This lung is an annectens alright,and 25" long not the 18" he said he was,so thats why i was concerned about him not appearing to be very robust. He is supposed to be 6 years old and only 25" long is that nornal for his age? And i should add that he has been kept in a 125 gal long and water changes were made every 15 days according to him. (He is willing to keep him untill my tank is up and running,oh yeah he's also free!)

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[santoury]

They DO vary in size. I have a big meaty annectens that is just about 25 inches also, and he is THICK! In retrospect I also have some that are pushing 2' and they are still slender. Those smaller ones I raised from small sizes, while the BIG one I adopted. My guess is their feeding over the years affects growth, but I don't believe enough is known about Protopterids yet to be able to give a straight up answer, other than the obvious speculations we can make about water quality, tank size, and so on - but that, in itself is speculation as well, as there IS definitely a wide range in growth in lungfishes, big and small. Having over 30 of these guys, not one is alike.

So, I would not be concerned. And as for pellets, it is better to vary their diet. It's like US eating a GREAT FOOD, say, Cheerio's, but nothing else, for five years. Fish ENJOY variety, just as we do, and it will benefit their health as well.

But, don't worry.
I would like to re-iterate my offer - If you feel 25 inches is more than you bargained for, I'll give you a smaller fish to fit your situation for him.
Meanwhile, just enjoy your awesome guys!

 

[E_americanus]

So, I would not be concerned. And as for pellets, it is better to vary their diet. It's like US eating a GREAT FOOD, say, Cheerio's, but nothing else, for five years. Fish ENJOY variety, just as we do, and it will benefit their health as well.

anthropomorphosing that fish 'enjoy' variety is not really accurate, and although variety is good in many cases, it doesn't mean that a staple pellet diet is not good. pellets are made (at least the good ones) to contain everything that the fish needs, human foods are not...which is why we eat a variety of foods, but fishes in captivity will not get that same level of variety.

it's not a bad thing, let's say with a community tank to mix up flake food, pellets, krill, and blackworms, but with many large predators, you'd be lucky to get them to eat flake food. large predator carnivore pellets are made with a wide spectrum of ingredients made so that the fish really doesn't need to eat anything else (just look at the ingredients). supplementing any missing items will help, but again, pick a good quality pellet and the fish will be fine.

some predators, in my experience, will eventually only eat a particular kind of food as their body seems to adjust to that (and the jury is still out on a lot of issues with how large predators react to captive conditions...adapting to a particular food item may be one of these things). for example, in my big gar tank, a few of them will eat just about anything, whereas most of them will just take cooked shrimp. they refuse raw, and tilapia, smelt, etc that they actually used to eat. perhaps some of it is a seasonal issue, but as the fish have grown and matured, they seem to gravitate to sticking with the one food item. if what you are providing has the nutrients, etc that the fish needs, stick with it.

getting back to the lungfish; i feed mine a staple of hikari pellets and earthworm sticks, but do mix it up every now and then with some vegetable matter. do what you can for your fish, but keep in mind a staple isn't a bad thing, and regardless of whether they 'enjoy' it or not, given the right food the fish will do quite well for you--
--solomon

 

[santoury]

Tell me your fish DON'T enjoy variety. Tell me your fish don't go nuts over a rarely offered food such as an earthworm, or whatever.
Tell me you haven't seen a fish that has eaten the same dull food all its' life, show excitement over a change...

But let's not go there. I'm an animal (fish) behaviorist and I could talk this subject until anyone drops.

You might bring up one example of predators going after whatever food it's hard wired to eat. Try telling that to your fish that will eat something totally unnatural. Such as... krill, or filet of salmon, or filet of mignon, etc etc...

But let's not derail here - Your new lungfish (and the other one) will definitely enjoy a variety of foods, as well as the health factor.

 

[E_americanus]

Tell me your fish DON'T enjoy variety. Tell me your fish don't go nuts over a rarely offered food such as an earthworm, or whatever.
Tell me you haven't seen a fish that has eaten the same dull food all its' life, show excitement over a change...

But let's not go there. I'm an animal (fish) behaviorist and I could talk this subject until anyone drops.

You might bring up one example of predators going after whatever food it's hard wired to eat. Try telling that to your fish that will eat something totally unnatural. Such as... krill, or filet of salmon, or filet of mignon, etc etc...

But let's not derail here - Your new lungfish (and the other one) will definitely enjoy a variety of foods, as well as the health factor.

Tell ME when you have looked up the word "anthropomorphic" and we can get back to this discussion

but in case that takes a little time, i will comment and say that i do realize that fishes will react to certain foods differently, they may prefer certain foods, but this doesnt necessarily mean they are better for the fish. take live food for example, a live feeder goldfish definitely isnt as healthy for a lungfish as a pellet is, but they will definitely go after it with gusto. there are several examples, but i won't get into all of them. don't worry, i have done my share of ethology/animal behavior as well --
--solomon

 

[santoury]

Having studied ethology yourself, how can you, then, be convinced of "the other side" so to speak? Not arguing with you, just having a neat conversation here.
What about other animals? Chimps using tools, an Oscar punching a wall with a rock, etc?

 

[E_americanus]

Having studied ethology yourself, how can you, then, be convinced of "the other side" so to speak? Not arguing with you, just having a neat conversation here.
What about other animals? Chimps using tools, an Oscar punching a wall with a rock, etc?

well you have to look at it on a zoological basis here as well. you can't really compare chimps to fishes, chimps are obviously much smarter...it's not a valid comparison. and when you get down to fishes, an oscar, as much as i would hate to admit it, is much smarter than a lungfish (think about development between ancestral vs derived fishes).

either way, neither of these examples points to an animal 'enjoying' one food in the way it was described earlier. a fish will generally react more quickly to live food than pellets in the sense that live food will trigger a more instinctual response, but prepared foods will eventually trigger a similar (not exactly the same) response. watch your lungfishes (you have 30 observations at least) when you put food in the opposite end of the tank...if they are properly conditioned to prepared foods they will generally react quickly and move vigorously in search of the items. just because they (eventually, if they havent had live in a while) move faster for live food doesn't indicate they 'enjoy' it more, and it definitely doesn't indicate the food is better for them.

the baseline issue here, is that in terms of lighthearted descriptions, we can give human traits to animals (fishes more specifically here), but when aiming for more accurate and useful advice, anthropomorphosing should be avoided as it's not really accurate.

i'm not really arguing either, just trying to make some points in this discussion --
--solomon

 

[blackthumb]

Wow! I just wanted to know a little bit about growth habits and feeding,thanks fellas.
Well, this lungfish is a little bigger than i wanted,but i really didn't want to turn a good deal into an expensive venture either. I really don't want to pay for shipping al the way across country to get a smaller one although i do app. the offer. One thing though,no one here seems to be able to get a s. american lf i might be willing to trade someone close to Wa. who wants an annectens of 25" or so.

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[santoury]

Cool discussion, Sol - we should do that more often!

As for the S American - I have one for you! I have several that would be PERFECT for you at just about a foot or a bit over in length.
I do realize you don't want to worry about the extra shipping on yours due to size - Perhaps I can help some with that? Keep in mind that I purchased mine.

Whatcha think? PM me if you want. Jude