Any Input

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Usually HITH is the result of terrible water quality. Not 100% convinced thats what it is because I have never seen it that high up on the head. Its usually seen on the face near the mouth and eyes. What ever it is, it looks like that tank could use a massive water change.
 
Usually HITH is the result of terrible water quality. Not 100% convinced thats what it is because I have never seen it that high up on the head. Its usually seen on the face near the mouth and eyes. What ever it is, it looks like that tank could use a massive water change.

Water is good, been changing daily, this fish came to me like this, think it might have infected the rd, its also on the sides of the fish, thats why I thought it could be the same issue

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Initially I would have suspected lymphocystis in the first fish, but if they look more like pits, and not growths, that should rule that out. In the second fish it looks like some form of Super HITH. I've never seen anything quite like it. HITH is not just caused from poor water quality, it has also been associated with hexamita/spironucleus. From the angelfish study linked to in my hex/spiro topic.

"In freshwater fish, Spironucleus sp. has been reported in cichlids, including angelfish, and cyprinids. Spironucleus elegans has been found causing disease in angelfish (Pterophyllum scalare) in Europe (Kulda and Lom, 1964b), while Spironucleus vortens has been also reported from the intestinal lumen of angelfish bred in Florida (Poynton et al., 1995). They can be found in the intestinal tracts of healthy fish and they may invade the body of the host and are capable of causing severe parasitemia under stress conditions (Molnár, 1974).

Hexamita are considered commensal organisms but can be pathogenic under various stressful conditions such as nutritional inadequacies, suboptimal water quality, crowding, poor sanitation and infections from other pathogens or parasites (Specht et al., 1989; Uzmann et al., 1965)

Although Hexamita and Spironucleus cause disease in several economically important fish species in many regions of the world, their pathogenicity is not well known (Woo and Poynton, 1995). It has been believed that the effects and the severity of diplomonad infection are dependent on fish size, tissue site infested, environmental conditions, stocking density, season and stress factors (Allison, 1963; Buchmann and Uldal, 1996; Mo et al., 1990; Uldal and Buchmann, 1996). Fish infected with Hexamita salmonis exhibited clinical signs correlated to their body length and weight (Uldal and Buchmann, 1996). This supports the study of Allison (1963) that large trout, more than 3 or 4 inches long, showed a smaller effect from Hexamita infection than smaller trout.

It is believed that the organisms invade the intestinal epithelium and disseminate to other tissues when the host’s resistance has been suppressed (Woo and Poynton, 1995). It has been suggested that only Spironucleus spp. cause systemic infection because they can invade intestinal mucosa and disseminate to other tissues (Siddall et al., 1992). Evidence of systemic spironucleosis was reported in cyprinids and aquarium fishes (Molnár, 1974), and in salmonids (Mo et al., 1990; Poppe et al., 1992; Sterud et al., 1997).

It has been suggested that only Spironucleus spp. cause systemic infection because they can invade intestinal mucosa and disseminate to other tissues (Siddall et al., 1992). Evidence of systemic spironucleosis was reported in cyprinids and aquarium fishes (Molnár, 1974), and in salmonids (Mo et al., 1990; Poppe et al., 1992; Sterud et al., 1997). In cyprinids, many Spironucleus sp. were found in the gut where they caused reddening of the mucous membrane, brownish-gray discoloration and necrosis of liver, and haemorrhagic enteritis. In aquarium fishes, the parasite has been reported to cause losses in angelfish stock of up to 50% of the population. The infected fishes showed reddening of the skin, and haemorrhages and ulcerations in the region of the head (Molnár, 1974). The parasites were found in the gut, gallbladder and visceral organs. Spironucleus sp. were also found in large numbers in the blood and the muscle of infected fish."


I would feed epsom soaked food, add salt (sodium chloride) to the water, keep the tank water pristine, and pray to the fish gods. Not too sure what more you can do beyond that.
 
Thanks, yea pits on te first guy, looka like the missing scales have slowly worn away down to the white flesh. Not at all on the fish's head, although I know see a third spot I think there are more that are staring to wear down.... I recently stopped using salt with all of my water changes could it be related. I am on my way out to get epsom. Administered pimafix, have been useing matro+ , combined with raise in temp,and am going to add salt and feed with epsom. Do you think these medications will be ok used together. Thanks again.

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I'm not sure that I would use Pimafix with elevated temps as it tends to reduce the 02 exchange at the surface. I'm also not too sure that it will help with something like this, but if you do continue to use it make sure that you have plenty of surface agitation via airstones or whatever.
 
ok thank you i do apprieciate you time, how do you feel about continued regular use of salt in the aquarium. I have alwaysed used it in my aquariums, recently i have stopped due to disputing articles I read.
 
Personally I never use salt in my tanks unless I am treating a wound etc. I have fairly high mineral content in my tap water, as well as a reasonable amount of natural sodium content, and I just don't see any need to add more sodium chloride on a regular basis. I have much stronger convictions with regards to large frequent water changes, especially with designer fish such as FH that in many cases have genetically weak immune systems. My 10-11" male has a 90 gallon to himself, and receives weekly 75% water changes. I also clean his filters more often than my CA cichlids, and his staple food (NLS) has a very high vitamin/mineral content and contains assorted bioactive compounds which also helps boost his overall immune system.
 
I normally do 2 a week @25%, clean the canister filter (fx5)1 time evey 2 weeks, just added salt, 25% daily water change last few days since treatment started, 35% today prior to adding salt and treating water, I have had this guy since 5" never a problem and he has bred for me several times. Currently no loss of appettite in either of the fish, the mate shows no signs of illness. I am gonna move the 3rd fish to reduce the bioload and place his mate seperatly on the other side of the barrier have no other place to put his mate right now. I feed with extreme vatiety, nls, hikari bio gold and carnivore sinking pellets, freezed dried mysis and earthworm, frozen bloodworm and krill. Nls is the staple he gets daily feed two times a day, he likes the nls most and I will skip a feeding to get him to take the mysis and earthworm as he rather eat pellets.
I am gonna be off to work soon, Im gonna do another water change when I get back.

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