API test results

[jjohnwm]

You are apparently keeping discus successfully now; I would think that you have a reasonable feel for the "art" of water chemistry, if perhaps not the science.

I'd suggest that some testing is good, but once you learn how your tanks behave (which you probably already know), and get a feel for biofiltration required for given stocking levels (which you already seem to have), the bulk of water testing is simply unnecessary.

My well water is very stable; testing it for over a year on a fairly regular basis showed me that, and the very rare tests I have run since then (a decade ago) confirm. I don't need to test it every week for ten years, only to see absolutely no change in pH or hardness. I'd probably change my thoughts on this if I returned to municipal water.

Similarly, cycling tanks using established filters from established tanks is a proven method. It's not a fluke, or something that sometimes works but not always. Once you realize that there are no cycled tanks, but rather cycled filters... you can use that knowledge to your advantage and never have to marinate fish in their own wastes or go through gallons of test reagents. A bit of testing will perhaps better clarify and explain things that you already "know" through experience. But when is enough...enough?

I do a lot of water testing in the springtime, when I fill up outdoor stocktanks using mostly snowmelt and local pond water. Aside from that, I can't remember the last time I tested the water from an indoor aquarium of mine...just like I can't really come up with an instance where I "cycled" a tank from scratch since moving into this house a decade ago. Taking an established sponge filter from an established tank, and using it to "instant cycle" a brand new tank with brand new water...is completely reliable once you understand it. Once it has worked for you a few times, or a few dozen times...how much more "testing" do you need to feel confident?

So, when you are testing water, do it right...follow instructions...use clean test vials, thoroughly rinsed...shake reagent bottles and test vials the recommended amount, pay attention to the times on the instruction sheets...and marvel at the pretty colours in the tubes. And then add this to your repertoire of skills and knowledge built up over the years. Don't let a weird colour in a test tube from a cheap consumer-grade kiddie-style test kit make you think that you have been doing everything wrong up till now; you clearly haven't.

 

[Alexxxxsv14]

I understand your point of view. I will keep testing my water for a week or two but I think you are right I added ceramic media from established tank and also the sponge filter so I think that will do the trick I might get some small dithers and introduce them first before transferring my stock

 

[FJB]

I believe what has happened is that the cycled media that was added from the established tank (3 days ago), starved on the absence of ammonia in the new tank, or of nitrogenous waste from fish. As such, it is not "cycled" anymore.
It is possible to do an 'instant cycle' of a tank, by placing an amount of cycled media at the same time as introducing at least some new fish (recommended to go easy on the amount of fish). I wouldn't do it with the discus (and certainly not all of them), but it is possible. However, with no fish, the cycled media 'starves' rather quickly.
It is possible to add fish regardless of cycling, but only if one plans to do large and very frequent water changes (such as daily).

 

[twentyleagues]

I understand your point of view. I will keep testing my water for a week or two but I think you are right I added ceramic media from established tank and also the sponge filter so I think that will do the trick I might get some small dithers and introduce them first before transferring my stock

I always have extra cycled media in a sump and I also keep about 10 sponge filters in one of my sumps just to start up 10g fry tanks. I've never had an issue moving fish with cycled media. As stated above I think the issue is you moved media but no food for said bacteria. You need more cycled media before you add the fish. Something else I do is get a good bottled bacteria either mb7 or another I can't remember the name of currently. I'll test weekly on a fresh set up done this way just to be sure. If adding bottled bacteria I always start with recommend dose and add the fish then do weekly adds of bacteria for about a month or until I run out of the bottle. You must add fish or some other source of ammonia or it will not cycle. Also as stated above somewhere i think jjohnwm said it I don't really test my water anymore. I have well water and it's very stable also, I know my pH kh and gh and if it changes with the season or whatever it really doesn't register on a api test.

 

[Alexxxxsv14]

I always have extra cycled media in a sump and I also keep about 10 sponge filters in one of my sumps just to start up 10g fry tanks. I've never had an issue moving fish with cycled media. As stated above I think the issue is you moved media but no food for said bacteria. You need more cycled media before you add the fish. Something else I do is get a good bottled bacteria either mb7 or another I can't remember the name of currently. I'll test weekly on a fresh set up done this way just to be sure. If adding bottled bacteria I always start with recommend dose and add the fish then do weekly adds of bacteria for about a month or until I run out of the bottle. You must add fish or some other source of ammonia or it will not cycle. Also as stated above somewhere i think jjohnwm said it I don't really test my water anymore. I have well water and it's very stable also, I know my pH kh and gh and if it changes with the season or whatever it really doesn't register on a api test.

that makes sense, I’m going to add an extra hob filter that is running and get a school of dither fish to add at the same time as the cycled media so the media doesn’t starve and go from there

 

[Trouser Cough]

that makes sense, I’m going to < snip > get a school of dither fish to add at the same time as the cycled media so the media doesn’t starve and go from there

It wasn't that long ago (1970's) that that was just about the only option. If you had a brand new marine tank you'd put a Black Molly in it and let it work for a couple three weeks. Much has changed in both understanding and process since.

 

[Alexxxxsv14]

Quick update guys I bought 5 tetras and a pearl guarami and threw them in the tank to help keep the media alive. They did great. I also added an fx5 with all seeded media and more driftwood and plants from my other tank. Tested the water and all appears to be good. I transferred my gold ram first and should be adding my discus and angels sometime this week. I’m hoping the green hue clears up after several water changes and now that the fx5 is running.
2 ac110s and fx5 currently for filtration

 

[Alexxxxsv14]

Another question will clown loaches mess with those plants ? Or should I do Cory’s instead
It’s a bare bottom so I didn’t want the Cory’s to be unhappy

 

[FJB]

I think you need to be careful so as not to fall in the same problems as before (starving seeded media and then adding fish).
You introduced a large filter (FX5) with seeded media into a tank that has a very low bioload (a gourami and 5 very small fish). Quickly, the bacteria population ('seeded' in the filter) will decline, remaining at a low population level corresponding to the low bioload. There is a risk that if in a few days later you add too many fish too quickly (the angels and the discus), the existing bacteria population may not cope and result in undesirable ammonia or nitrite levels, or both. I would have waited and not introduced the seeded FX5 until about the same time as introducing your large fish. The problem can of course be prevented by being very attentive to parameters and ready for large and frequent water changes once the fish are introduced; that until a larger bacteria population develops. Good luck!
BTW the 5 tetras appear not to be tetras but to be Gold White Cloud Mountain Minnows (Tanichthys albonubes "Gold"), an aquarium strain of a Chinese rasbora. I could be wrong as I couldn't magnify much the photos.

 

[jjohnwm]

^ What he said!

"Cycled" doesn't refer to a black-or-white, on-or-off situation. It's a broad grey scale, and a tank cycled for three small fish is still not going to immediately handle the addition of 10 or 12 more without needing a few days...and suffering a temporary ammonia spike.

Also, I think it should be mentioned that your White Cloud Mountain Minnows are not really ideal tankmates for Discus; pretty far from it, actually. Temperature requirements should be considered when choosing which fish are to be kept together...doing that with those two species will reveal that at least one and likely both will be living at opposite extremes of their temperature ranges. Extremes are never a good idea.