Are canisters nitrate factories?

[abaddown]

nitrates should only concern you if you are keeping a reef


depending on the media used and the flow rate, a canister filter may or may harbour de-nitrifying bacteria in the deeper layers of the bio-film. Most times not. This is why I only use canister filters for mechanical and sometimes chemical filtration. The only reason they are marketed as an all-in-one solution is because people are lazy. I would rather use a separate filter for each type of filtration I am trying to accomplish (nitrification (sponge filter/fluidized sand filter etc), de-nitrification (plants/sulfur denitrator etc), mechanical (canister filter/sump w/ filter sock etc), and chemical (canister filter/fluidized reactor etc)


Of course water changes can replace some or all of these, depending on how often you do them (a proper drip system can replace all of these, except the nitrification)

 

[Redearsunfish]

nitrates should only concern you if you are keeping a reef

I'm not sure this is true... as I do believe from what i've read, that a concentrated/high build up of ANY chemical is detrimental to fish health in freshwater systems.

 

[Jc1119]

nitrates should only concern you if you are keeping a reef


depending on the media used and the flow rate, a canister filter may or may harbour de-nitrifying bacteria in the deeper layers of the bio-film. Most times not. This is why I only use canister filters for mechanical and sometimes chemical filtration. The only reason they are marketed as an all-in-one solution is because people are lazy. I would rather use a separate filter for each type of filtration I am trying to accomplish (nitrification (sponge filter/fluidized sand filter etc), de-nitrification (plants/sulfur denitrator etc), mechanical (canister filter/sump w/ filter sock etc), and chemical (canister filter/fluidized reactor etc)


Of course water changes can replace some or all of these, depending on how often you do them (a proper drip system can replace all of these, except the nitrification)

No, although a bigger concern in a Reef, nitrates at elevated levels can be problematic in any type of aquaria that fish reside.

And a properly setup drip system can eliminate all. Clean water is clean water. Nh3, N02 and N03 all go out the same drain.


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[DDK]

I'm not sure this is true... as I do believe from what i've read, that a concentrated/high build up of ANY chemical is detrimental to fish health in freshwater systems.

I agree in saltwater tanks nitrates are a bit more important due to fish sensitivity and also the cost of water changes but after 40ppm it does impact the health of fresh water fish.

 

[HarleyK]

. The only reason they are marketed as an all-in-one solution is because people are lazy. I would rather use a separate filter for each type of filtration I am trying to accomplish (nitrification (sponge filter/fluidized sand filter etc), de-nitrification (plants/sulfur denitrator etc), mechanical (canister filter/sump w/ filter sock etc), and chemical (canister filter/fluidized reactor etc)

I don't think us canister people are lazy. I think you're way too complicated in a world that allows simplification. We customize by using different media.

Do you also have different cars for road trips, getting groceries, commute, and movie dates?


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[abaddown]

I'm not sure this is true... as I do believe from what i've read, that a concentrated/high build up of ANY chemical is detrimental to fish health in freshwater systems.

Oh, I absolutely agree, it's just that we don't have to pay out the ass for salt mix like the reef guys do so water changes are cheap and should be done frequently, thus more complicated methods to eliminate nitrates are unnecessary for freshwater fish keepers.

No, although a bigger concern in a Reef, nitrates at elevated levels can be problematic in any type of aquaria that fish reside.

And a properly setup drip system can eliminate all. Clean water is clean water. Nh3, N02 and N03 all go out the same drain.


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Sure a drip system can eliminate all, in fact one could have a drip system that drips so fast it becomes a flow through system. The reason I mentioned still having a filter providing nitrification is that I feel a drip rate necessary to keep a heavily stocked tanks ammonia levels adequately low is too much water loss. Nitrates and other pollutants that build up at a slower rate are what I use a drip system to dilute. At the end of the day you will have nitrification happening in your tank regardless of filtration or lack there of. It really depends on how much water you want to waste.

I sometimes wish I lived directly next to a river, I'd save a hell of a lot of money on water.

I don't think us canister people are lazy. I think you're way too complicated in a world that allows simplification. We customize by using different media.

Do you also have different cars for road trips, getting groceries, commute, and movie dates?


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Lazy and efficient are two sides of the same coin . Canister filters can absolutely cover all three types of filtration, they just don't do each type as efficiently as more specialized filters. This is fine for average tank sizes, but the larger your tank gets, the more impractical it becomes. I will also admit, I love to fiddle with pvc and a router, hence most of my filtration is custom made...if I were forced to buy hobby grade only, I would definitely go with a canister


And actually yes, I wouldn't take my Benz on a camping trip, I'd take my Jeep

 

[viejafish]

I am amazed that this thread is still alive.

Ammonia and nitrite are acutely toxic. Nitrate is lowly toxic to fish, and slightly more toxic to invertebrates. This is why reef tanks must have very low nitrate level to thrive. Fish can tolerate hige nitrate level for a short time, but chronic exposure to elevated nitrate level can compromise fish immunity leading to suceptability of deseases. So the goal for keepig healthy fish is to maintain as low nitrate level as practicable.

Nitrate is not the only waste of concern. Nitrate is an indicator of general water quality. So if nitrate is high, it is an indicator that other cogenerated wastes such as phosphate, potassiam, other nutrients and organic matters are also high. No one talks about phosphate cycle or the toxicity of phosphate and other wastes which are not harmless at elevated levels. There are also complex organic matters in the water that gives the water fishy smell. Salt water folks use protein skimmer to remove organic matters. Most FW don't know or care.

You can't be lazy if you want to maintain canisters the right way. It is actually more time consuming to clean a canister than a HOB, sponge or sump filter, just not as frequently as mandatory for other filters. Other filters will get clogged up and stop working if you don't clean them frequently. Canisters allow you get lazy to postpone cleaning, but it is bad for water quality and the fish.

The popularity of canister is just great marketing, not fundamentally more sophisticated than other filters.

 

[Redearsunfish]

I am amazed that this thread is still alive.

Ammonia and nitrite are acutely toxic. Nitrate is lowly toxic to fish, and slightly more toxic to invertebrates. This is why reef tanks must have very low nitrate level to thrive. Fish can tolerate hige nitrate level for a short time, but chronic exposure to elevated nitrate level can compromise fish immunity leading to suceptability of deseases. So the goal for keepig healthy fish is to maintain as low nitrate level as practicable.

Nitrate is not the only waste of concern. Nitrate is an indicator of general water quality. So if nitrate is high, it is an indicator that other cogenerated wastes such as phosphate, potassiam, other nutrients and organic matters are also high. No one talks about phosphate cycle or the toxicity of phosphate and other wastes which are not harmless at elevated levels. There are also complex organic matters in the water that gives the water fishy smell. Salt water folks use protein skimmer to remove organic matters. Most FW don't know or care.

You can't be lazy if you want to maintain canisters the right way. It is actually more time consuming to clean a canister than a HOB, sponge or sump filter, just not as frequently as mandatory for other filters. Other filters will get clogged up and stop working if you don't clean them frequently. Canisters allow you get lazy to postpone cleaning, but it is bad for water quality and the fish.

The popularity of canister is just great marketing, not fundamentally more sophisticated than other filters.

Well said.

 

[dogofwar]

So..yes canisters are nitrate factories...especially if not regularly cleaned

Matt

 

[lp85253]

I love the fact somebody else (plural) likes beating the proverbial horse