Are we giving our fish enough nutrition?

[jelly]

Balls! Whitebait isn't brilliant then as it's likley to have lots of Thiamin. I was hoping that as a whole fish, it was much better for them.

Ok, so this leaves me looknig for an alternative. Whilst the wolves and brycon aren't fussy, I will struggle to migrate the Tat to something else- it really seems to focus on the eyes more than anything else...

Thats a very simalar reaction to me when I read it.

With the Tats I have used long slices of Trout with the scales on one side, as it drops throught the water they will usually grab it. Mine now pick it up from the floor.

 

[krichardson]

Thats a very simalar reaction to me when I read it.

With the Tats I have used long slices of Trout with the scales on one side, as it drops throught the water they will usually grab it. Mine now pick it up from the floor.

Same here,it looks like most of the readily available fish are tainted.I wish my tats would take something from the floor of the tank.When food is dropped in and they dont catch it before it hits bottom,they ignore it.

 

[mynheers_a_pint]

I would be interested to find out whether or not leaving fish in hot water for a few minutes was enough. The trouble is, cooking them would mean the fish probably wont accept them and i doubt a kettle can get the water hot enough to break down the thiamin.

Any ideas?

 

[mad ness]

I keep the tank always stocked with feeders. this keeps them from tearing one apart more than they already do.

Then i keep a seperate tank full of feeders, water is of higher in salt content. these fish are kept for 4 days, i just toss out the dead and visibly dieseased. Not really a quaranteen, just kind of.

On the 4th day all these fish get emptied into the tanks that always have 24-7 feeder stock. payara, cuda, tiger fish is one of these tanks.

The armatus are big now, i'd say they're nearing the 1ft mark. If the tank wasnt as crowded as it is, i bet they'd eat more and be even bigger.
I don't know if feeding live/whole fish has anything to do with it. Never got the chance to try non-live, probably won't though and stick to this. Think Hybrid's got a point. Just seems logical.

Appear to be pretty tough and relatively low maintenance other than very well maintained water. Deep lacerations on all inhabitants, cloud eye from impact, one armatus' eye swelled up like a balloon after getting damaged... all heal up with out much problems.

There are 4 kinds of fish readily available locally (that work well with armatus). Common gold fish, fan tail gold fish, then 2 other silver colored fish. The former goldfish are rumored to be dirtier, in particular the fan tail gold fish. My guess is because they're more susceptible to diesease than the other alternatives. I use the latter 2 but don't know their names. I dont think they're available where you guys are located anyways.

Been going to the fish markets that sell live fresh water fish for human consumption. When/if the tigers and payaras get big enough to eat 5 inch fish, will give them a try. Probably need to do a more diligent quaranteen however. one looks like a type of carp, the other reminds me of lates.

 

[hybridtheoryd16]

I for one do not beleive the whole thiaminase theory.

Mostly because of what I have witnessed with my own eyes.

We in the US feed mostly food considered very low in thiamin. And get 10x more wasting disease related deaths then those over sea's that feed primarily carp species considered to be the worst possible source of nutrition for predators because of the high levels of thiamin and parasites.

I feed my larger preds fat head minnows and gold fish that both contain high levels of thiamin and have never seen a case of thiaminase. Been doing so for the last 10-12 years.

I have searched my fingers off all over the web looking for any proof that thiaminase is more than a theory. And have never found anything related to fish that was credable.

 

[krichardson]

I for one do not beleive the whole thiaminase theory.

Mostly because of what I have witnessed with my own eyes.

We in the US feed mostly food considered very low in thiamin. And get 10x more wasting disease related deaths then those over sea's that feed primarily carp species considered to be the worst possible source of nutrition for predators because of the high levels of thiamin and parasites.

I feed my larger preds fat head minnows and gold fish that both contain high levels of thiamin and have never seen a case of thiaminase. Been doing so for the last 10-12 years.

I have searched my fingers off all over the web looking for any proof that thiaminase is more than a theory. And have never found anything related to fish that was credable.

Good counterpoints to the Thiamin concerns.

 

[mynheers_a_pint]

i guess the main point to be had is that rather than focusing on the thiamine/no thiamine issue, concentrate on trying to ensure a balanced diet. My intentions are to try and introduce some vitamin supplements but not concern myself too much about the thiamine- it's not been an issue so far..!

 

[DB junkie]

I have gill flukes. Reading more and thinking about the symptoms, I could have very well lost a great majority of my losses to this "wasting away" I believe caused my these gill flukes. Very little physical clues. Just behavior till I saw the eggs that I've been seeing for weeks maybe even months and everytime I I saw them I just thought it was kicked up white Estes sand. Now I'm wondering if the "planaria" I've been seeing aren't free floating gill flukes!?!

Maybe people aren't catching this? The bi yearly parasite meds may very well keep these lil buggers in check. My understanding is they are very common and your fish can live with them without symptoms but then stress or poor water quality can drive immune system down then the flukes take over.

If this is happening to me it might be happening to others as well.

 

[hybridtheoryd16]

I have gill flukes. Reading more and thinking about the symptoms, I could have very well lost a great majority of my losses to this "wasting away" I believe caused my these gill flukes. Very little physical clues. Just behavior till I saw the eggs that I've been seeing for weeks maybe even months and everytime I I saw them I just thought it was kicked up white Estes sand. Now I'm wondering if the "planaria" I've been seeing aren't free floating gill flukes!?!

Maybe people aren't catching this? The bi yearly parasite meds may very well keep these lil buggers in check. My understanding is they are very common and your fish can live with them without symptoms but then stress or poor water quality can drive immune system down then the flukes take over.

If this is happening to me it might be happening to others as well.

Good catch man get them suckers treated.

I have had them as well and they spread like wild fire.

My tats at one point got to where they were constantly jaw flapping. Like opening there mouth wide sort of a yawn and snap shut. I thought they were maybe trying to take in water really fast to knock the flukes loose/off there gills.

I introduced a new one that was doing it at the lfs and with in a week all 4 had started. I held off on treating until I seen them doing it constantly . And then after a few days into the treatment I seen a clear-ish planaria looking bug fall from the gill plate of one as it yawned. It was about 2-3mm in length. From searching around it seems as if thats a giant fluke.