I wish i lived in the tropics. No sympathy for you.
So i would need to ditch the heater and get a chiller instead? Oh woe is me
Are we keeping our cichlids too warm!
- Thread starter Stanzzzz7
- Start date
So i would need to ditch the heater and get a chiller instead? Oh woe is me
Normally keep my ca cichlids around 20 to 24.
Temperature can get complicated, in lake nicaragua on a calm day the surface temperature can get to 30 while 15 m down it can be 16. Rivers can fluctuat alot with rainfall, cold water running of the high ground and in prolonged dry periods heating up.
Temperature can get complicated, in lake nicaragua on a calm day the surface temperature can get to 30 while 15 m down it can be 16. Rivers can fluctuat alot with rainfall, cold water running of the high ground and in prolonged dry periods heating up.
Appreciate what your saying Dan and I agree.
I do still feel that most Google searches will give temps in the high end of the fishes comfort zone.
Obviously in the same lake or river, temps can differ at different water depths etc.
Generally I believe through what I have learned about natural habitats,wild fish will be spending more time in cooler water than the same species in captivity.
Take Discus.Now I know a lot of discus come from warmer water courses but they also live in the rio guapore.I have never heard of anyone keeping discus as low as 70 degrees. It's certainly not a common practice anyway.
Is it better for our fish to live in perpetual summer climes or are they better off at the cooler end.
Metabolism speeds up in higher temps, so does aggression and appetite. Fish are also shorter lived.
I have been running w/o heaters for about two year now, and don't see any issues. The only time I use a heater is in a quarantine tank or if I am trying to make a pair breed. But once they spawn, and the fry are roughly 2 weeks old I start lowering the temp, then remove the heater. Seems to do great.
With a few exceptions, I agree about us (I did for the longest time) keeping our cichlids too warm.
It really came to a head for me when my beanii succumbed to columnaris during a mid summer heat wave in Milwaukee (a disease I had never experienced prior), and I started checking out temps where they come from in northern Mexico, quite cool at night (50sF) that helped hold average riverine temps down during the day. I removed heaters from their tanks, and on my next group had almost immediate spawning, and somewhat less aggression.
I even kept my bartoni much cooler after checking their habitat where the cool 60s temp water flows into their lagoons from nearby mountains. In cooler conditions they were much less aggressive, and also spawned.
Keeping Gymnos from Uruguay was also a wake up call, when I lost my first group (after trying to keep them in constant tropical temps), and only then realizing although summer temps in Uruguay got hot, it was not uncommon for ice to form on some bodies of water in winter.
When I first got into keeping cichlids back in the 50s, basic oscar temp tolerance in the literature of the time, was said to be 64-78.
It may also not be just the heat itself, but because the warmer the water the less oxygen it holds, which could be an added stressor,
When I went to Colombia last year, I was amazed at how cool the water was in the Magdalena system, even though it became immediately obvious that the mountains where its headwaters begin are very close, and some even ice capped.
You tell by my face, the cool was not comfortable.
Now living Panama, for aquarists, chillers are common place, to keep tanks from overheating.
The few exceptions for me, were Nandopsis haitiensus, where on that caribbean island fresh water temps always seem to stay in the high 80sF,
or Alcolapia alcalicus that come from a very warm soda lake (Natron)
It really came to a head for me when my beanii succumbed to columnaris during a mid summer heat wave in Milwaukee (a disease I had never experienced prior), and I started checking out temps where they come from in northern Mexico, quite cool at night (50sF) that helped hold average riverine temps down during the day. I removed heaters from their tanks, and on my next group had almost immediate spawning, and somewhat less aggression.
I even kept my bartoni much cooler after checking their habitat where the cool 60s temp water flows into their lagoons from nearby mountains. In cooler conditions they were much less aggressive, and also spawned.
Keeping Gymnos from Uruguay was also a wake up call, when I lost my first group (after trying to keep them in constant tropical temps), and only then realizing although summer temps in Uruguay got hot, it was not uncommon for ice to form on some bodies of water in winter.
When I first got into keeping cichlids back in the 50s, basic oscar temp tolerance in the literature of the time, was said to be 64-78.
It may also not be just the heat itself, but because the warmer the water the less oxygen it holds, which could be an added stressor,
When I went to Colombia last year, I was amazed at how cool the water was in the Magdalena system, even though it became immediately obvious that the mountains where its headwaters begin are very close, and some even ice capped.
You tell by my face, the cool was not comfortable.
Now living Panama, for aquarists, chillers are common place, to keep tanks from overheating.
The few exceptions for me, were Nandopsis haitiensus, where on that caribbean island fresh water temps always seem to stay in the high 80sF,
or Alcolapia alcalicus that come from a very warm soda lake (Natron)
Nice post Duanes and photos.With a few exceptions, I agree about us (I did for the longest time) keeping our cichlids too warm.
It really came to a head for me when my beanii succumbed to columnaris during a mid summer heat wave in Milwaukee (a disease I had never experienced prior), and I started checking out temps where they come from in northern Mexico, quite cool at night (50sF) that helped hold average riverine temps down during the day. I removed heaters from their tanks, and on my next group had almost immediate spawning, and somewhat less aggression.
I even kept my bartoni much cooler after checking their habitat where the cool 60s temp water flows into their lagoons from nearby mountains. In cooler conditions they were much less aggressive, and also spawned.
Keeping Gymnos from Uruguay was also a wake up call, when I lost my first group (after trying to keep them in constant tropical temps), and only then realizing although summer temps in Uruguay got hot, it was not uncommon for ice to form on some bodies of water in winter.
When I first got into keeping cichlids back in the 50s, basic oscar temp tolerance in the literature of the time, was said to be 64-78.
It may also not be just the heat itself, but because the warmer the water the less oxygen it holds, which could be an added stressor,
When I went to Colombia last year, I was amazed at how cool the water was in the Magdalena system, even though it became immediately obvious that the mountains where its headwaters begin are very close, and some even ice capped.
You tell by my face, the cool was not comfortable.
View attachment 1296095
View attachment 1296097
Now living Panama, for aquarists, chillers are common place, to keep tanks from overheating.
The few exceptions for me, were Nandopsis haitiensus, where on that caribbean island fresh water temps always seem to stay in the high 80sF,
or Alcolapia alcalicus that come from a very warm soda lake (Natron)
Interesting you mention the magdalena being so cold
I recently kept a stingray from the magdalena. Most of my searches when looking for information on it recommend a temp around 80 degrees.
And there you are stood freezing your nuts off in it.
Most definitely. Beani did a lot better without tropical temps. I've seen a lot of sa/ca cichlids in FL waters that I know stay colder. They seem to be flourishing.
Personally I keep my jags @ 78F, but there's been times in the past where the heater went out. I didn't notice for weeks ... They're in the garage and I live down south so its not brutally cold
Personally I keep my jags @ 78F, but there's been times in the past where the heater went out. I didn't notice for weeks ... They're in the garage and I live down south so its not brutally cold
I think in some cases yes and in some no. I have killed some beani due to bloat when I moved them inside after a summer outside in a pond. I believe the higher temps of the heated tank stressed them out. I have also kept my cichla intermedia and crenicichla lenticulata at cooler temps for extended periods and they did ok. It wasn't until I added a second heater and raised the temps to the high 70s that I saw an improvement in color and appetite.
I'd mostly agree. I think the problems occur when you begin to have major temp swings. My display tank is in an unheated bonus room that can fluctuate over 10 degrees throughout the day and night. I do not feel comfortable leaving the tank unheated during the colder months however typically remove the heaters during spring and summer.
I think we need to keep in mind fish can and do move throughout a wide range of temperatures as they swim through different depths, flows, shaded/unshaded areas.
I also find that larger fish tolerate temp swings or cooler temps better. For example, when I do a water change on my 220 my large pearsei act as if they are completely unaffected, yet my smaller Thorichthys often act a little goofy for the first hour or so until the temp levels back out. I suppose that could be attributed to more than just temperature though...
I think we need to keep in mind fish can and do move throughout a wide range of temperatures as they swim through different depths, flows, shaded/unshaded areas.
I also find that larger fish tolerate temp swings or cooler temps better. For example, when I do a water change on my 220 my large pearsei act as if they are completely unaffected, yet my smaller Thorichthys often act a little goofy for the first hour or so until the temp levels back out. I suppose that could be attributed to more than just temperature though...
I agree about larger fish taking cooler temps, they often spend times at greater depths where the sun has less influence.
And younger and smaller fish stay in shallower water where day time water temps can soar.
I often see fry in only inches of water, that floods the shoreline.
And younger and smaller fish stay in shallower water where day time water temps can soar.
I often see fry in only inches of water, that floods the shoreline.
