So few ray breeders?? maybe in the us, but anybody with a kiddie pool in thailand is breeding them and shipping them here and to europe
Aren't you Ray guys/gals going the way of the Midevil ( Citrinellum x Red Devil ) ?
- Thread starter Miguel
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So few ray breeders?? maybe in the us, but anybody with a kiddie pool in thailand is breeding them and shipping them here and to europe
I didn't realize many cb rays are imported. I wouldn't trust pure bloodlines coming from overseas from anyone that wasn't well known. The guy with a kiddie pool likely won't be exporting. Anyone who pays for a cb import will likely openly discuss the rays origins
The guys with the kiddie pools sell to Thai dealers who export over here selling them by what the pup appears to be, and the reteilers over here rarely radmit to there sources (I always inquire and will not buy unless I am comfortble with the origin and seller).
What information leads you to believe this?
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Out of room in my subscriptions so I will be back later when I have time to type out my novel on this subject.
I didn't realize retailers spend that much on importing rays. Wouldn't be much less expensive for a retailer to buy wild caught rays? I have very limited knowledge on the subject... But I do agree that retailers are untrustworthy. Even a guarantee that a fish is wc means little when coming from some of these popular shops such as aquascape. It is too bad that honesty is so hard to come by these days...
The fact that a lot of first generation hybrids look like wild caught "mantilla rays", the variety of "motoros" that are imported, the willingness of captive animals to crossbreed even when presented with there own species and a conversation with Richard Ross I had at the MFK convention last year on the subject.
Looking forward to itOut of room in my subscriptions so I will be back later when I have time to type out my novel on this subject.
A lot of the more expensive rays are not available to import (or very limited) due to the countries of origin for wild stock. As far as Aquascape i personally have had good dealings with them and feel Pedro is one of the more forthcoming vendors on the origin of there animals.
This is a long winded wandering response but.. This reminds me of "The botany of desire" a book my Michael Pollan the author of food Inc. He talks about the benefits and dangers of monoculture and hybridization.
Compelling in both respects. Humans like to create, and "play God" this is a theme in our history.
Nearly every dog breed that exists is man made. Through selective hybridization then massive inbreeding for selective traits. American black slaves were selectively bred for 100's of years for size and strength. Now they're bigger and stronger than blacks anywhere else and dominate physical sports despite being only a small fraction of the population as a result. Apples and the dozens of varieties were all hybridized and inbred for specific colors, shapes and flavors.
With technology now advancing our obsession has jumped into the realm of genetic engineering skipping hybridization and inbreeding as the sole means of modifying creatures to suit our tastes and needs. Another tangent in itself.
With rays and flowerhorns etc. I think it's just like everything else. How much can we influence and what can we create. We aren't Gods but we want to be.
In this era where we've mapped every land mass and Island and documented most of the large species we still naturally want to continue exploring and discovering. I think that it manifests itself in this respect. I bet geoengineering is next..
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Compelling in both respects. Humans like to create, and "play God" this is a theme in our history.
Nearly every dog breed that exists is man made. Through selective hybridization then massive inbreeding for selective traits. American black slaves were selectively bred for 100's of years for size and strength. Now they're bigger and stronger than blacks anywhere else and dominate physical sports despite being only a small fraction of the population as a result. Apples and the dozens of varieties were all hybridized and inbred for specific colors, shapes and flavors.
With technology now advancing our obsession has jumped into the realm of genetic engineering skipping hybridization and inbreeding as the sole means of modifying creatures to suit our tastes and needs. Another tangent in itself.
With rays and flowerhorns etc. I think it's just like everything else. How much can we influence and what can we create. We aren't Gods but we want to be.
In this era where we've mapped every land mass and Island and documented most of the large species we still naturally want to continue exploring and discovering. I think that it manifests itself in this respect. I bet geoengineering is next..
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