I finally have time to do an automatic water change addition, I plan on buying a 200 gallon container to age water. Don’t have the name but I see a dosing machine that the saltwater people use. What’s a good plan? 2 water changes a week spread out over like 6 hours? I see some people do continuous drip but that would stress me as I would have to do plumbing just curious how people do it, of course I would add a third if the nitrates were to increase or something.
Automatic water changes for 360 gallon
- Thread starter Hmontoya93
- Start date
Just curious why you want to age water, is it because?
Your water is treated with free chlorine?
This is a viable way to dechlorinate.
is it, because your tap water is treated with chloramine?
Chloraminne treated water sometimes takes weeks to dechloraminate by aging.
So aging is not really a reliable way to dechloraminate.
or is it to add other chemicals or mineral salts gradually, as in pH or hardness alteration?
Your water is treated with free chlorine?
This is a viable way to dechlorinate.
is it, because your tap water is treated with chloramine?
Chloraminne treated water sometimes takes weeks to dechloraminate by aging.
So aging is not really a reliable way to dechloraminate.
or is it to add other chemicals or mineral salts gradually, as in pH or hardness alteration?
Thanks for reply, I have issue only with wild caught fish before where water changes more than 40 percent sometimes they die even dechlorinating and matching temperature to the 1 degree. I usually don’t age just fill 22 77 gallon Home Depot totes with water put prime, and pump water in takes like 1 hour or so. This was more to become more automated, they devices I saw you can schedule them whenever you want they take water out and pump back in saving me time, if it works I can do this to all my tanks
Interesting.
I keep only wild caught species too, and do 40% (some times more) water changes every other day,
and the wild types seem to relish those kinds of changes.
Are you sure its not the chemical water parameter change idiosyncrasies, such as pH and hardness as opposed to the water temp.
I only keep wild caught species that match my tap water parameters.
I would never try to put wild caught (or even F1) Uaru fernandenzeypezi that come from the soft, low pH (4 or 5) waters of the Rio Negro or Orinoco,
in my 8.2 pH hard water.
Or if I had soft, or even neutral pH water
Tanganyikans such as frontosa that need minimum pH of 8 and calcium rich water,
in soft pH water of only 7.2 of below.
Just curious what are your tap water parameters, and what wild caught species what done poorly.
I keep only wild caught species too, and do 40% (some times more) water changes every other day,
and the wild types seem to relish those kinds of changes.
Are you sure its not the chemical water parameter change idiosyncrasies, such as pH and hardness as opposed to the water temp.
I only keep wild caught species that match my tap water parameters.
I would never try to put wild caught (or even F1) Uaru fernandenzeypezi that come from the soft, low pH (4 or 5) waters of the Rio Negro or Orinoco,
in my 8.2 pH hard water.
Or if I had soft, or even neutral pH water
Tanganyikans such as frontosa that need minimum pH of 8 and calcium rich water,
in soft pH water of only 7.2 of below.
Just curious what are your tap water parameters, and what wild caught species what done poorly.
I will double check I think PH is like 7.5 out of tap water. It’s happened twice once with Datnoids and once with wide bar silver dollar I had a school of 10 silver dollar only the 5 wide bar died and the Datnoids. Everything else seems to tolerate the water changes I have other tanks with flowerhorn, parrots, Oscar’s they could probably handle 80% water change no issues. Right now I have 3 Datnoids from 8-10 inches in there they are thick and colorful and the would take a lot of money to replace, and a lot of time to make them friendly because they recognize me and come to me for foods… this took a long time.. so I am scared to experiment with large weekly water changes. I do 3 a week now but it’s becoming time consuming trying to find a better way. I replaced the silver dollars with blackberry instead no issues no deaths in like 2 years, the only wild caught survivor is my black arowana but I raised him from a baby maybe he adjusted to the water better because. the others I bought full grown so they wouldn’t get eaten.
I've kept a lot of self-collected wild fish over the years, although I can no longer do so due to tightening legal restrictions. This is in addition to many store-bought fish, both wild-caught and domestically bred. When I do a water change...which is often...I rarely bother with less than 80% and it's usually closer to 95% or so. One of my old mentors used to refer to these as "fin level" water changes, meaning that the fish are down on the bottom, often tipping onto their sides, before the water draining stops and the filling begins. The fish always seem to love it, usually looking their best as the new water fills. I don't think I've ever lost a fish due to a high-volume water change; perhaps someone can illustrate an example where this plan wouldn't work, but I've never seen it.
Doing such a change on my 360-gallon takes about 1.5 hours, which is spent in my recliner just keeping an eye on things. The only work involved is opening and closing valves.
I like to do one such high-percentage change at least weekly. I think frequency is important. Don't change the water because it has gotten dirty; change it before it has a chance to become dirty. In a moderately-stocked tank, a weekly large change means that the water going out hasn't changed or degraded significantly, so the fresh water coming in doesn't shock the fish in any way. I'm on a well, but even if you are paying for municipal water, it's still the cheapest part of aquarium maintenance; far cheaper than the electricity to run/heat/light the tanks. Don't skimp on it.
I subscribe to the idea put forth by
duanes
regarding keeping fish that are suited to the water I have; I don't want to fight nature. If I had to manufacture water like so many folks do...reverse-osmosing, re-mineralizing, de-chlorinating, fiddling with matching pH/hardness...I'd get out of fishkeeping.
I like your idea of storing the water in vats or bins; although I have installed an on-demand system with a temperature-controlling mixer valve, I usually take the new water out of one of my storage tanks which are at the same ambient air temperature as the fishtanks. You can always add a heater to the storage tank if your fishtanks are heated above room temperature. A storage tank is also the perfect place to de-chlorinate if you are using municipal water. Typically, I drain down the fishtanks, refill them from the storage tanks, and then refill the storage tanks immediately afterwards in preparation for the next change. If you put in a bit of effort to find and mark the fishtank at the level that will allow the storage tank to drain completely into it for the refill, and mark the storage tank at the appropriate level, you don't even need to be present while the new water refills the aquarium...although I like to be present.
My system is not "automatic" per se, because I have to be there to open and close the appropriate valves to drain, fill, etc. but I don't need to carry hoses or buckets to do so. Water drains from the tanks by means of a pump, a series of semi-permanent hoses, and a valve-controlled manifold which allows me to control which tank is drained, the water being pumped to the outdoors. Then new water flows by gravity from the storage tanks to the fishtanks; the storage tanks are in the crawlspace several feet above the basement floor.
The climate in my locale requires me to pump the old water a considerable distance from the house during winter to prevent the formation of a skating rink. During the warm months, the old water is pumped to wherever in the garden it might be useful, or out into the pasture, or even to top up my backyard pond or stocktanks in dry weather. If you live in a warmer climate, it simplifies the disposal of the old water considerably. If your home is served by a municipal sanitary sewer system, it's even easier.
Yes, setting up the system in the first place takes a bit of time and effort, but the time and effort saved in the long run far, far outweighs that minor, one-time inconvenience. A water change spent quietly observing your fish, reading, listening to music, enjoying a beer, etc. is an absolute joy rather than a chore.
Doing such a change on my 360-gallon takes about 1.5 hours, which is spent in my recliner just keeping an eye on things. The only work involved is opening and closing valves.
I like to do one such high-percentage change at least weekly. I think frequency is important. Don't change the water because it has gotten dirty; change it before it has a chance to become dirty. In a moderately-stocked tank, a weekly large change means that the water going out hasn't changed or degraded significantly, so the fresh water coming in doesn't shock the fish in any way. I'm on a well, but even if you are paying for municipal water, it's still the cheapest part of aquarium maintenance; far cheaper than the electricity to run/heat/light the tanks. Don't skimp on it.
I subscribe to the idea put forth by
duanes
regarding keeping fish that are suited to the water I have; I don't want to fight nature. If I had to manufacture water like so many folks do...reverse-osmosing, re-mineralizing, de-chlorinating, fiddling with matching pH/hardness...I'd get out of fishkeeping. I like your idea of storing the water in vats or bins; although I have installed an on-demand system with a temperature-controlling mixer valve, I usually take the new water out of one of my storage tanks which are at the same ambient air temperature as the fishtanks. You can always add a heater to the storage tank if your fishtanks are heated above room temperature. A storage tank is also the perfect place to de-chlorinate if you are using municipal water. Typically, I drain down the fishtanks, refill them from the storage tanks, and then refill the storage tanks immediately afterwards in preparation for the next change. If you put in a bit of effort to find and mark the fishtank at the level that will allow the storage tank to drain completely into it for the refill, and mark the storage tank at the appropriate level, you don't even need to be present while the new water refills the aquarium...although I like to be present.
My system is not "automatic" per se, because I have to be there to open and close the appropriate valves to drain, fill, etc. but I don't need to carry hoses or buckets to do so. Water drains from the tanks by means of a pump, a series of semi-permanent hoses, and a valve-controlled manifold which allows me to control which tank is drained, the water being pumped to the outdoors. Then new water flows by gravity from the storage tanks to the fishtanks; the storage tanks are in the crawlspace several feet above the basement floor.
The climate in my locale requires me to pump the old water a considerable distance from the house during winter to prevent the formation of a skating rink. During the warm months, the old water is pumped to wherever in the garden it might be useful, or out into the pasture, or even to top up my backyard pond or stocktanks in dry weather. If you live in a warmer climate, it simplifies the disposal of the old water considerably. If your home is served by a municipal sanitary sewer system, it's even easier.
Yes, setting up the system in the first place takes a bit of time and effort, but the time and effort saved in the long run far, far outweighs that minor, one-time inconvenience. A water change spent quietly observing your fish, reading, listening to music, enjoying a beer, etc. is an absolute joy rather than a chore.
24:7 dripper here… waaay less work and $$ for constant drip IMO. Hardest part is the drip drain/waste water. Its easy to run and hide 1/4” icemaker/poly tubing for ur source water. Dont even need an aging barrel.
Auto changer can be superior to autodrip. The best way is to add ur water back by drip tho or extremely slowly not quickly like with a regular water change. Thats what causes stress on ur fish and swings in tank parameters. This way u basically need that “water storage” tied directy into ur sump. That way u can drain it down while ur tank/system is still running and fill it back up over days/a week with just a float valve from ur water source while ur tank level stays the same.
Gravity usually doesnt fail… anything electric like dosing pumps, controllers or solenoids can give u more headache in the long run and of course it costs alot more for IMO “bells and whistles” lol…
If u enjoy the “tech” part of it not knockin ya… just mentioning other ways to solve the same problem without more electricity and things to break or malfunction
After reading ur other responses ur seeing exactly what im talking about. Stress/fish dropping from tank swings and mini cycles from too much fresh water too quickly. When u drip the water in its like acclimation basically. Alot of “run of the mill fish” can take 90% changes even no problem. Alot of other fish just drop dead at 50% IME. Theres alot of factors. Ur filtration and tank bio play alot into it also. The more stable bio u have the more water u should b able to change. Regardless, autodrips solve basically all of that.
At the least… i believe ur on track with the aged water. That alone should curb the mini cycles/tank crashes with ur regular 40% changes. Water actually needs to be aged for like a week tho with circulation, heat and a filter of its own.
The key to any one way is just consistency. For me, autodrips are the most constant part of my systems. Even during power outtages my fish are still getting the same fresh water 24:7 as they do any other time. Some people dont like it
And u may find something else works better for u. All part of the game tho. Alot of people are just “fish replacers” instead of figuring out thier own water issues.
Auto changer can be superior to autodrip. The best way is to add ur water back by drip tho or extremely slowly not quickly like with a regular water change. Thats what causes stress on ur fish and swings in tank parameters. This way u basically need that “water storage” tied directy into ur sump. That way u can drain it down while ur tank/system is still running and fill it back up over days/a week with just a float valve from ur water source while ur tank level stays the same.
Gravity usually doesnt fail… anything electric like dosing pumps, controllers or solenoids can give u more headache in the long run and of course it costs alot more for IMO “bells and whistles” lol…
If u enjoy the “tech” part of it not knockin ya… just mentioning other ways to solve the same problem without more electricity and things to break or malfunction
After reading ur other responses ur seeing exactly what im talking about. Stress/fish dropping from tank swings and mini cycles from too much fresh water too quickly. When u drip the water in its like acclimation basically. Alot of “run of the mill fish” can take 90% changes even no problem. Alot of other fish just drop dead at 50% IME. Theres alot of factors. Ur filtration and tank bio play alot into it also. The more stable bio u have the more water u should b able to change. Regardless, autodrips solve basically all of that.
At the least… i believe ur on track with the aged water. That alone should curb the mini cycles/tank crashes with ur regular 40% changes. Water actually needs to be aged for like a week tho with circulation, heat and a filter of its own.
The key to any one way is just consistency. For me, autodrips are the most constant part of my systems. Even during power outtages my fish are still getting the same fresh water 24:7 as they do any other time. Some people dont like it
And u may find something else works better for u. All part of the game tho. Alot of people are just “fish replacers” instead of figuring out thier own water issues.
I actually meant to mention
wednesday13
in my already-too-long post. 
I would be set up for one of his constant drip systems in a heartbeat...except for the difficulty inherent in getting rid of all that water continuously 24/7/365. If I lived in the tropical paradise he does...Ohio, isn't it? ...I might be able to manage it and would be thankful to do so.
But, honestly, Russ...I don't agree with your comments (and those of many others as well) about mini-cycles resulting from large water changes. It's important to ensure that the water coming in is as close to the water going out as possible, that's a given. It's why I espouse not merely large changes, but lots of them. The whole point is to minimize the difference in parameters; if the new water is virtually identical to the old, there's nothing to prompt a "mini-crash" of the bio and thus there is no mini-cycle occurring.
If you were to do no changes for weeks or months on end, and then suddenly do a 90% change one day, I can certainly see that there might be sufficient huge parameter swings to upset some fish...but even then I question whether it would piss off your bacteria. Not about to experiment to find out.
Fish might be dying for any of a number of reasons, but I am convinced that pinning the blame on large water changes is probably not the answer. Doing so makes the aquarist stop looking for the real culprit, which is not a good thing...and in fact it ends up in the fish getting less/fewer water changes, which is also not a good thing. It also results in more work...still another not-good thing...and might eventually prompt some folks to just say "I quit".
Whatever works for any given aquarist is the answer for that aquarist. Properly done water changes...huge ones...work without question. Do big-enough changes often enough...and the end result is that the water doesn't really change at all in its make-up. Change it a lot to keep it the same.
wednesday13
in my already-too-long post. I would be set up for one of his constant drip systems in a heartbeat...except for the difficulty inherent in getting rid of all that water continuously 24/7/365. If I lived in the tropical paradise he does...Ohio, isn't it? ...I might be able to manage it and would be thankful to do so.But, honestly, Russ...I don't agree with your comments (and those of many others as well) about mini-cycles resulting from large water changes. It's important to ensure that the water coming in is as close to the water going out as possible, that's a given. It's why I espouse not merely large changes, but lots of them. The whole point is to minimize the difference in parameters; if the new water is virtually identical to the old, there's nothing to prompt a "mini-crash" of the bio and thus there is no mini-cycle occurring.
If you were to do no changes for weeks or months on end, and then suddenly do a 90% change one day, I can certainly see that there might be sufficient huge parameter swings to upset some fish...but even then I question whether it would piss off your bacteria. Not about to experiment to find out.
Fish might be dying for any of a number of reasons, but I am convinced that pinning the blame on large water changes is probably not the answer. Doing so makes the aquarist stop looking for the real culprit, which is not a good thing...and in fact it ends up in the fish getting less/fewer water changes, which is also not a good thing. It also results in more work...still another not-good thing...and might eventually prompt some folks to just say "I quit".
Whatever works for any given aquarist is the answer for that aquarist. Properly done water changes...huge ones...work without question. Do big-enough changes often enough...and the end result is that the water doesn't really change at all in its make-up. Change it a lot to keep it the same.
This ^ should be made into a bumper sticker and put on every fishtank.
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I would also question why large water changes are an issue (they probably aren't, but are what exacerbates the root cause) in your tank.
Could there be some rock/ substrate in the tank that is altering parameters from your source water? If so, then a large change with source water would create a significant discrepancy.
...Just trying to think outside the box.
Could there be some rock/ substrate in the tank that is altering parameters from your source water? If so, then a large change with source water would create a significant discrepancy.
...Just trying to think outside the box.