Awsome food for fellow Canadians!

  • We are currently upgrading MFK. thanks! -neo
Imo its like whole wheat bread compare to white, whole wheat is much better for you but doesn't taste as good as white bread is delicious but also not as good.....

Once a fish is on nls they will always take it and if it takes some fasting to make that happen then so be it!

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+1

It took my fish a few days to adjust to NLS from Hikari but now that they have they devour the stuff. Not trying to turn this into another pro NLS forum, but the OP mentioned the price difference, and now that I feed NLS they are full after eating significantly less compared to hikari. Just a factor to consider when discussing price
 
No doubt NLS is great! My whole thing is North fin is consumed much easier then NLS, IME fish take NLS but if you switch for a bit NLS dosnt appeal to them also I have fish completly out of the blue stop taking NLS, maybe my water lol?

Im no pro on food ingredients but if North Fin was cheaper THAT wpuld make me curious about its credebility.

Actually f1 Vet brown bread is no better for you then white, all wheat is GMO and full of chemicals! So just keep eating your white stuff if you enjoy it.lol
 
I also find it hard to believe clay has no benifits, they use to say that about mushrooms!
 
Miguel - the biggest problem with NLS is how dense/hard it is. It can be a big problem getting some fish to initially eat it, but once they do there's usually no turning back. Those pleuros that Bret imported, once they got a taste for NLS they actually refused to eat tilapia, market prawn, or even salmon. It could float right past their noses & they would keep swiming to grab the NLS. Something that one almost has to see in person to believe.

The fix to the firmness problem is using less pressure, and more starch when formulating the food. The more starch, the quicker the uptake of water, the softer the food becomes, which in turn makes it more palatable to most fish. But Pablo's goal has always been to use less starch, and less filler, and more quality ingredients. Also, the firmer the pellet the less nutrient leaching in water. It's a catch 22 sort of thing.

I find that with NLS size really does make a big difference, and it's always best to use smaller pellets than normal to train the fish, and if possible use the floating pellets as due to their "air pocket" honeycomb internal design they don't tend to be as hard as the sinking pellets.

Also, some manufacturers use certain methods/ingredients to improve taste/smell in the food, to help trigger a greater feed response. That doesn't equate to the food being better/healthier, it simply smells/tastes better to a lot of fish. Something as simple as a higher fat content, or MSG, could trigger a greater feed response. Just like with humans, some of the food that smells/tastes the best to us, is the worst for our long term health.
 
Everything in moderation will not affect you long term, I think other components of good husbandry have the same if not more to do with the over all long term well being of a fish, you can feed NLS all day long but if the other factors are not in play its worthless. I like to grow with NLS then give them a better tasting pellet, I have.tasted it lol
 
Well now that we have established that this "new" food is not cheaper ...........




I also find it hard to believe clay has no benifits, they use to say that about mushrooms!


Calcium montmorillonite clay & the 60 mineral compounds ......


This logic or theory originates with mud/clay bottomed Koi ponds in Japan (Dainichi is a Koi based company - NOT cichlids), and the belief by many Koi breeders that mud lined ponds produce better Koi than cement ponds. This logic is based on the belief that the natural mineral content found in mud enhances the fishes color & overal health, as do the natural feedstuffs found in a mud bottomed pond. With the fish feed costing over half the total costs of running a large Koi farm, this would also translate into overall operation savings, espectially if organic & inorganic fertilisers are added to the pond (such a chicken droppings) to maximize the natural feedstuffs found in the pond.


I don't believe that the idea of the adsorption properties of clay ever played into this concept in the early days of breeding Koi, but is more of a recent event since the promotion & sale of this clay by health gurus over the past 25 years or so. While there are scores of vendors selling clay for the use in Koi ponds, I certainly don't see many freshwater or marine people jumping on the clay bandwagon.


While adding trace mineral elements to tap water that's void in certain minerals may be beneficial to some fish, a high quality food will contain an ample amount of these trace elements & minerals in the food itself. If for whatever reason one is still concerned about this, an easy fix would be to add something as simple as a teaspoon of a natural sea salt, or marine salt, to your tank with each water change.

As an example ...........

Analysis: Coarse Grey Sea Salt

Chloride: 51%; Sodium: 32%; Water from crystalization: 7%; Sulfur: 1.12%; Zinc: .87%; Magnesium: .50%; Iron: .38%; Potassium: .26%;Manganese: .026%; Copper: .018%; Calcium: .012%; Silicon: .011%; Micro-Elements: Carbon: .034%; Strontium: .009%; Boron: .004%; Hydrogen: .003%; Fluorine: .001%; Nitrogen: .0008%; Argon: .0005%; Lithium: .0002%; Rubidium: .00014%; Phosphorus: .000112%; Iodine: .00007%; Barium: .00002%; Molybdenum: .000012%; Nickel: .000008%; Arsenic: .0000037%; Uranium: .0000038%; Vanadium: .0000024%; Tin: .0000009%; Cobalt: .00000045%; Antimony: .00000035%; Silver: .00000032%; Krypton: .00000024%; Chromium: .0000002%; Mercury: .0000002%; Neon: .00000012%; Cadmium: .000000112%; Selenium: .0000001%; Germanium: .00000007%; Xenon: .00000006%; Scandium: .00000005%; Gallium: .000000035%; Zirconium: .00000003%; Lead: .000000026%; Bismuth: .000000024%; Niobium: .000000023%; Thalium: .000000022%; Gold: .000000019%; Pico-traces of: Helium; Lanthanum; Neodymium; Thorium; Cerium; Cesium; Terbium; Yttrium; Dysprosium; Erbium; Ytterbium; Hafnium; Gadolinium; Prasodymium; Beryllium; Samarium; Holmium; Lutecium; Tantalum; Thulium; Europium; Tungsten; Protactinium.


If my count is correct, I counted a total of 71 minerals & trace elements. If I really felt the need, which I do not, I could buy a bag of natural sea salt, or marine salt for $25 or less, and at a teaspoon per water change it would probably last me into the next decade.


Some will state that clay will neutralize metabolic toxins. Really, and exactly what toxins would those be?
Where oh where is all of the science to support these claims?


Is using clay in fish food really a good idea?



"Due to these earlier findings, a variety of other common clay and zeolitic minerals are now being added to feeds as aflatoxin binders. Unfortunately, many of these binders due to their interaction with nutrients and other important feedborne chemicals may be nonselective in their action and may pose significant hidden risks." (Abdel-Wahhab et al., 2005).




This has always been something that I've been concerned about; if montmorillonite clay has such high adsorption properties, how does one know that non-toxic substances (such as essential nutrients & minerals) are also not being adsorbed?



The following comment was made by an MD who is actually very pro montmorillonite clay, yet he too warns about the potential of clay absorbing items of nutritional value, such as vitamins, along with any potential toxins.

"It is important not to take any nutritional supplement at the same time as the bentonite. Especially when used with psyllium, the bentonite will absorb anything of nutritional value such as herbs, friendly bacteria, and vitamins, as well as toxins, bad bacteria and parasites. Be sure to wait 1 hour after drinking a bentonite shake before taking anything nutritional."



Both science, and common sense would lead me to believe that it if one simply wants to add minerals & trace elements to their fishes environment, there are far less complex and safer ways to do so, such as adding a small amount of natural sea salt to their tank water.

For those of you that are eager to feed montmorillonite clay to your fish, how many of you also consume this product yourself with each & every meal?

Hmmmmmm.
 
Just an FYI, one tip for getting fish on NLS is to use a small pellet even smaller than the size you will feed as a staple. Once they are used to the taste it's easier to get them to accept a larger pellet. This way you are not dealing with the taste of a new food combined with the desity of the pellet get them used to eating NLS then getting them to accept a larger pellet is pretty easy. I have all my wild cought fish eating NLS. I've never owned a fish I couldn't get to eat NLS.
 
.......... I've never owned a fish I couldn't get to eat NLS.
can I send my spoiled rotten O to you for training? Lol. I am a miserable failure. he has never swallowed a NLS pellet. only hikari biogold plus and some floating sticks. I think the MSG is why :-/
he mouths massivore sometimes, but spits it out.
he eats worms etc.
I believe he will only convert to pellets [consistently] with the addition of tankmate(s) competition/action.?
part of the problem, my husband has bonded with this fish about feeding. so in spite of not being "optimal", perhaps there's a payoff trade. hubby gets so stoked feeding him nightcrawlers.
 
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