Axolotl question time....

[ScatMan]

As I went on to say in the post, in my experience the smaller the aquarium the more sedentary they are. That's why I don't see a smaller size as being worth keeping them as pets. If you want lab animals, you may as well keep them as lab animals, and just throw them in a 10 gallon.

i had exactly the opposite experience. mine seems more self-confident in the 20-long, it spends less time in the cave and doesn't get spooked by my dogs bumping the tank like it did before. it appears to be happier there although admittedly i can't ask it.

a 10 would be literally half the space, why would i want to "throw them in a 10"? to say in effect that i might as well use a 10 (instead of a 20-long) is stupid. they're hardly kept like "lab animals" in a 20-long, and it's perfectly adequate for a happy healthy axolotl with enough space to move freely.

i think i see what your point is though; you're not going to make a jaw-dropping show tank out of a 20-long.

i just don't think the axolotl cares about its keepers tastes as long as it has what it needs.

The two 30 gallon aquariums I have both came used from yard sales so I don't know what brand/make they are, but the footprint on them is (roughly) 36"x 16". A 20 gallon is 30"x12". I assumed mine were standards, since I found two of them are different yard sales. Maybe they're breeder tanks?

what are all 3 dimensions of the tank exactly (L/W/H)? it's definitely not a 30 standard or you're guessing the dimensions wrong. it sounds like you might have a 30-breeder (36longX18wideX12high).

let me correct myself here: a 20-long has the same footprint as a 29g NOT a 30g. sorry, i got them confused.

 

[thacarter546]

A 20 Long is more than adequate for 1-2 maybe 3. Ive kept several in my lifetime. Got them from a local bait shop being sold as catfish bait.

I used to keep them in a long underbed tupperware container with a few rock cave. never could get them to eat any fish. They loooooved crickets though.

Really fun critters, but they need some space to be fun.

 

[ScatMan]

^ i doubt that they were axolotls. you probably had some type of locally collected larval salamander. axolotls will greedily consume anything they can get in their mouths. 2 or 3 axolotls in a 20-long is definitely overcrowding and they bite each other when too cramped.

 

[rnocera]

I raised three babies in a 20, and by the time they were 6" long, they were nipping at each other, even when in perfect body condition. Unless I let them gorge themselves, they would nip each others feet, tails, and gills. And most true adult (breeding adults) axolotls I've seen wouldn't be able to turn around in a 20 gallon without touching both sides of the tank at the same time. In my eyes, that's too small.

 

[ScatMan]

"I once saw a friend's female axolotl that was about 43 cm (17 inches) in length. However, a large size for most axolotls would be 25-30 cm (10-12 inches). The average seems to be about 23-25 cm (9-10 inches)."
-http://www.axolotl.org/biology.htm

a 20 long is 12.5" wide. plenty of room for all but the largest of axolotls to turn around in without touching both sides of the tank.

 

[rnocera]

Scatman- I believe that yours wasn't very active in a 55, and is ok in a 20. Every animal is different. All I'm encouraging here is to be prepared for whatever an animal needs, not to hope that you can get by the absolute minimum (which is what you described a 20 gallon as the first time you posted in this thread). It's not meant to be a personal attack or anything, and I'm pointing out why MY experience working with multiple animals and personally talking with breeders tells me something different from what happened to be the case with one animal.


So we should recommend to complete noobs that they should just go with the smaller possibility of an animal's adult size? I mean, I've seen full grown iridescent sharks that stopped growing at less than 1' long- does that make them good fish for a 20 gallon? When buying an animal, one should always plan on housing that animal no matter what size it gets to. Saying some stay smaller and hoping that yours will stay that small is setting yourself up for disaster. And in the situation of aquaria, where filters, lights, hoods, and stands often simply don't work as well with a larger tank (much of the time it's cheaper to buy one large filter than two smaller filters, and in most of those situations, one larger filter moves more water and keeps it cleaner than two smaller filters for the same price- stands and hoods will have to be completely replaced, because they're made to fit specific footprints), I think it's much better to prepare people for what their animal could truly turn into, rather than hope for the best case scenario and tell them to spend a couple hundred bucks on a setup that there's a really good chance will have to be replaced in 18-24 months, possibly even sooner. Your average person buying a 20 gallon aquarium with stand, the recommended filtration, lighting, etc. . . that comes from a pet store is going to spend at least $200USD, probably closer to $300. The person who started this thread was specifically talking about spending over $200 USD on a roughly 6 gallon aquarium.

That same site also says

This tank contains approximately 60 litres of water (13 Imp gallons, perhaps 11 US gallons).

Then a couple sentences later:

With regular maintenance, this aquarium could accomodate eight adult axolotls. I also like to think it has good Feng Shui!

(http://www.axolotl.org/housing.htm)
They're describing a 4' tank with "perhaps 11 US gallons" of water in it. What kind of regular maintenance are they talking? 100% water changes every 12 hours?

Tony asked about housing a single axolotl in a 43 cm tank, and that site says 45 cm is good for one adult. Do you really think the same tank Tony was looking at but 2 cm longer would be sufficient to house one? Because that's exactly what the site you're quoting recommends.


I don't know if maybe housing them in extremely small settings makes a difference, but while they say 9-10 inches is average at axolotl.org, out of the 15+ adults I've seen, I'd say at least two thirds of them were 12" or more. I personally had two that were over 10" at less than 18 months old. Also keep in mind that on the housing section of the site, they say axolotls reach 7-14". It's the second sentence actually describing axolotls. That really tells me that you should prepare for a 14" animal. Sure that 17" is a real exception to the rule, and I've never even heard of one first hand being that size, only ever "someone had one that was this big" with no photographic evidence or anything- I think we can call that an outlier, and say you shouldn't really expect your animal to reach that size. ANY animal has the potential to be an outlier and reach far above average, but outliers are unforeseen circumstances.

While some of the information on axolotl.org is great, some of it is also highly questionable. Much of what they recommend is extremely similar to the housing laboratories use- would you house your other pets the same way they're housed in labs? I wouldn't let my dog live its entire life in a kennel the size labs use, why would I want my axies to? I don't know ANY private keepers who would recommend keeping 8 adult axolotls in a 40 long (similar footprint), let alone with only 11 gallons of water in it.

 

[ScatMan]

Scatman- I believe that yours wasn't very active in a 55, and is ok in a 20. Every animal is different. All I'm encouraging here is to be prepared for whatever an animal needs, not to hope that you can get by the absolute minimum (which is what you described a 20 gallon as the first time you posted in this thread). It's not meant to be a personal attack or anything, and I'm pointing out why MY experience working with multiple animals and personally talking with breeders tells me something different from what happened to be the case with one animal..

listen, bigger is always better, no doubt. i'm not now, nor will i ever dispute that.

i'm also not telling him to get a 20-long or that a 20-long is ideal. it's exactly what i said it is; the minimum. i'm letting him know that it's a bad idea to get anything smaller than that, but feel free to buy a bigger tank.

since the op asked about keeping one a 10 gallon tank, i assumed space was a priority. this is why i recommended a 20-long, as i see it to be the minimum size but still comfortable tank for an adult axolotl to be happy and healthy.

So we should recommend to complete noobs that they should just go with the smaller possibility of an animal's adult size?

nope, no one here said that or even implied that. in fact, you are doing the extreme opposite of this and recommending a tank for the rare maximum. i'm sure that we can agree that a 13" axolotl is a big one, and in my opinion, a 13" axolotl can be comfortably housed in a 20-long.

all except the most extremely large and rare would happily fit in a 20-long, imo.

I mean, I've seen full grown iridescent sharks that stopped growing at less than 1' long- does that make them good fish for a 20 gallon?

apples to oranges. id sharks have a completely different nature and require completely different setups, i'm not going to waste time comparing the two.

When buying an animal, one should always plan on housing that animal no matter what size it gets to. Saying some stay smaller and hoping that yours will stay that small is setting yourself up for disaster.

it's a very small chance of having an axolotl grow too big for a 20-long, but some people wear suspenders and a belt. so i guess it's up to your comfort level. yes it's a risk, but a very small one, imo.

I think it's much better to prepare people for what their animal could truly turn into, rather than hope for the best case scenario and tell them to spend a couple hundred bucks on a setup that there's a really good chance will have to be replaced in 18-24 months, possibly even sooner.

1st point: it's not the "best case scenario", it's the most likely scenario. you are recommending to preparing for the worst case scenario.

2nd point: a 20-long cost $30.00, and a hood w/ light is another $30.00 for a total of $60.00... it's not exactly a bank breaker. and considering that the op wanted to spend $116us on a 10 gallon, i don't think cost was priority #1, rather space.

That same site also says
Then a couple sentences later:
(http://www.axolotl.org/housing.htm)
They're describing a 4' tank with "perhaps 11 US gallons" of water in it. What kind of regular maintenance are they talking? 100% water changes every 12 hours?

Tony asked about housing a single axolotl in a 43 cm tank, and that site says 45 cm is good for one adult. Do you really think the same tank Tony was looking at but 2 cm longer would be sufficient to house one? Because that's exactly what the site you're quoting recommends.

are we going to discredit everything they say because you (and i) don't agree with their tank recommendations?? that would be throwing the baby out with the bath water. if you don't agree with their figures, say that.

i've heard these same #'s (or close to it) from several sources and my limited personal experience with 3 axolotls (never breaking 12") supports the #'s.

While some of the information on axolotl.org is great, some of it is also highly questionable. Much of what they recommend is extremely similar to the housing laboratories use- would you house your other pets the same way they're housed in labs? I wouldn't let my dog live its entire life in a kennel the size labs use, why would I want my axies to?

again, apples to oranges.

I don't know ANY private keepers who would recommend keeping 8 adult axolotls in a 40 long (similar footprint), let alone with only 11 gallons of water in it.

me neither.