baby alligator

[snakeguy101]

Like allways this is no black and white question! Keeping a animal like a orca or by that matter comparing keeping a animal like a orca with keeping a croc is like day and nigth! Crocs are solitary, relatively sedentary, territorial animals that have a relatively small social structure and that would happily munch on one another! Orcas are extremely social family bound animals, extremely inteligent and with a humangous range. And specialy crocs under nowadays captive conditions trive and live long healty lifes, wich doesant apply to orcas... If orcas are to be kept in captivity by what reason there may be, we need to COMPLETLY reform the way we are doing so because it is simply not working! It is hard to imagen a good captive circunstance for orcas and a management sistem that would have in acount the physcological and fisical needs of this animals. I think keeping them all together as a family in a Norway or Canadian fiord enclosed would be a start...

sea world seems to do it just fine (despite the incident with the trainer). again, I said if you have the means to keep something that you want responsibly, then you should be able to, even if the means to keep it would require millions of dollars.

 

[coura]

sea world seems to do it just fine (despite the incident with the trainer). again, I said if you have the means to keep something that you want responsibly, then you should be able to, even if the means to keep it would require millions of dollars.

Dude thats what Ive been saying! THEY DONT DO IT RIGTH! Do you know nowadays average life expentacy for captive orcas, including sea world ones? Its short to say the least comparing to the wild ones and thats the key! Crocs in captivity trive and live long lives, sometimes much longer then their wild lifes wich orcas so far havent. Female orcas in captivity often live as few as 18-22 years when they should live easily 60 years! Male orcas tend to fare even worse and in my knowlege aquariums worldwide are facing a large lack of male orcas, and not only their population is starting to become inbreed but also they CANT be put back into the wild because most captive orcas are crossbreds between the Atlantic and the Pacific populations. So far mortality in cb ones has been BAD and because in most countrys you cant capture them, if you ask me their captive population is destined to become higly inbreed and completly fail And train them to do silly trickys and wondering why they turn on their trainers? And what about the aquariums that were keeping them alone? The frustration of this animals must be huge, and this is not conservation or public awereness that can not be obtained by watching this animals in the wild. I say group them all, clouse a fyord in the northern sea and put them all in a managed population. Oh and by the way Im not PETA the aproach this people have with orcas is COMPLETLY diferent to what so many people do in securing species in captivity.

 

[snakeguy101]

Dude thats what Ive been saying! THEY DONT DO IT RIGTH! Do you know nowadays average life expentacy for captive orcas, including sea world ones? Its short to say the least comparing to the wild ones and thats the key! Crocs in captivity trive and live long lives, sometimes much longer then their wild lifes wich orcas so far havent. Female orcas in captivity often live as few as 18-22 years when they should live easily 60 years! Male orcas tend to fare even worse and in my knowlege aquariums worldwide are facing a large lack of male orcas, and not only their population is starting to become inbreed but also they CANT be put back into the wild because most captive orcas are crossbreds between the Atlantic and the Pacific populations. So far mortality in cb ones has been BAD and because in most countrys you cant capture them, if you ask me their captive population is destined to become higly inbreed and completly fail And train them to do silly trickys and wondering why they turn on their trainers? And what about the aquariums that were keeping them alone? The frustration of this animals must be huge, and this is not conservation or public awereness that can not be obtained by watching this animals in the wild. I say group them all, clouse a fyord in the northern sea and put them all in a managed population. Oh and by the way Im not PETA the aproach this people have with orcas is COMPLETLY diferent to what so many people do in securing species in captivity.

I really disagree with you. Not all of these animals are social and they are often spotted alone in the wild. The trainers that work with them also become a sort of a family group for the animal and provide it with enrichment by training it. You have to understand that they do not make the whale do anything it does not want to do but rather works with it so that the animal is stimulated and kept busy. As far as the whale "turning on its trainer" nothing could be farther from the truth, it was an accident on both the trainer and Tilicomes part. He was simply trying to play with her like a toy and did not realize that he was hurting her.

OP, sorry for the derail. The point is that we think you should be able to keep an alligator, croc, or whatever you want if you can house it properly and take care of it to the extent it needs.

 

[fishjude78]

again, it is possible to keep this animal safely and effectivly. there are many of us that could, would and do keep this animal as well as many other far more dangerous animals. so it is fine as long as he would to have a plan. but he isnt getting it.

and everybody knows not to let it go, so it really shouldnt be a big issue. especially considering already uninformed law makers (and partially because stupid pet owners) are tryin to make it really hard to keep alot of animals like this. anyone who releases an animal such as this should be

still baffles me when people do that. what are they thinking. what do they think will happen?

Obviously people do release exotic pets into the wild, or we wouldn't have cichlids in florida, or boas or any other exotic animal for that matter.

 

[snakeguy101]

Obviously people do release exotic pets into the wild, or we wouldn't have cichlids in florida, or boas or any other exotic animal for that matter.

this is a common misconception, the main reason why there are exotics in FL is not because of pet owners. Cichla were released in south FL by the FWC on purpose to control certain species that escaped from aquaculture farms. The pythons that everyone hears about escaped from the many roadside zoos and attractions surrounding the everglades when hurricanes knocked down their enclosures.

it is worth doing some research on it, it is interesting....

 

[fishjude78]

this is a common misconception, the main reason why there are exotics in FL is not because of pet owners. Cichla were released in south FL by the FWC on purpose to control certain species that escaped from aquaculture farms. The pythons that everyone hears about escaped from the many roadside zoos and attractions surrounding the everglades when hurricanes knocked down their enclosures.

it is worth doing some research on it, it is interesting....

Thank you chris, I will look into it.

 

[coura]

I really disagree with you. Not all of these animals are social and they are often spotted alone in the wild.

That is true but they do that because they chouse to, not by force. And the ones that do that are allways male, some zoological facilitys keep or kept female orcas alone.

The trainers that work with them also become a sort of a family group for the animal and provide it with enrichment by training it. You have to understand that they do not make the whale do anything it does not want to do but rather works with it so that the animal is stimulated and kept busy. As far as the whale "turning on its trainer" nothing could be farther from the truth, it was an accident on both the trainer and Tilicomes part. He was simply trying to play with her like a toy and did not realize that he was hurting her.

If I train a dog to do some kind of trick, he will do it and im not "forcing" him, just matter for tougth. The rest you said its true but does not invalidade what I already stated. If we are to keep captive orcas we must totaly re evaluate the way we are doing it.

OP, sorry for the derail. The point is that we think you should be able to keep an alligator, croc, or whatever you want if you can house it properly and take care of it to the extent it needs.

True

 

[moddeverything]

Thats a american aligator bro i have one thats how i know mines alot smaller i can show you some of my pictures if you would like

 

[EricIvins]

Wow........Everything about this thread is just........Wrong........

 

[snakeguy101]

Wow........Everything about this thread is just........Wrong........

then please, enlighten us....