Baby bichir might of ate a "rock?" Weird behavior. Read please!

[dani_starr]

So first some background: So on Tuesday, I got Nim (my ~4" baby Sen) another baby Senegal friend (Namine), along with a very social peacock eel (Mushu). No, I was bad, and didn't quarantine, my QT tank started leaking, so I moved all 3 to my 75 gallon tank which has been set up for about a month now, (I moved filter media, driftwood, and some sand from my 29 gallon to 75 gallon to get it cycled, and have been doing daily 30% water changes, I am a water change fanatic.)

Since I first got Namine on Tuesday, I noticed she is always breathing with her mouth and opening and closing. Besides that though, she has been acting normal and eating normally, just a happy baby Sen. She has taken to getting her self stuck to the top slots of my overflow, and just hanging out there, but she can easily swim away. She is slightly bigger than Nim, and has more of gold/orangish brown tinted tail, and a slight purplish brown tinge to her body (really pretty coloration), while Nim is pretty much all brown. She is really active though, her and Nim will play with each other all the time, it's adorable!

Today I was watching all 3 fish swim around this morning, and noticed Namine chomping something down. Not more than 5-10 seconds later, she started doing this horrific jerking side to side, her head almost looking like it was going to pop off, she was extending it so far where you could see her gills. It was awful and horrific to watch, I was certain she was going to die.

About a minute later, she stopped, did some frantic swimming with a little more jerking (but nothing to the extreme as before), and then swam back up to the overflow where she stuck herself, then swam back down underneath some plants, then floated around some more, then right now she is back sucked to the overflow (she can swim away, she does this all the time), all though her body is at a slightly awkward angle. (her butt is higher than her head and she is almost like bent?) It's hard to describe.

I also noticed that she now has a small bump in the center of her bottom jaw underneath. (which was NOT there before). Which oddly, Nim went underneath her and almost nudged at where the bump was, he did this about 5 or so times, which he hasn't done before.

Did she perhaps swallow something inedible, and that display of erratic jerking was her trying to spit it back up? Or is something else wrong with her.

Nim and Mushu (who comes out a lot), are both acting normal, no signs of any illness or anything like that.

The water params are
Ammonia- 0ppm
Nitrite- 0ppm
Nitrate- ~20ppm

Thanks in advance for any help!

 

[Llamalord]

Often times when polys eat something large they'll swing their heads back and forth to use their muscular bodies to force the object down, I'm not sure it that was what was happening, but it may be the case. Her floating tail may be a sign of gas which usually solves itself within a day or so (in my experience). Like I said I'm not sure if this is the case but hopefully some more experience mfk'ers can shed some light.

 

[dani_starr]

Right now, she has moved back down the sand and Nim is hanging out right by her, most of his body is along hers.

Their diet since Tuesday has been
Tuesday- shrimp pellets (which no one touched of course, even though before Nim relished them) and frozen mysis shrimp (thawed out in a net running under cold water
Wednesday- frozen freshwater frenzy (same unthawing technique)
Thursday- frozen bloodworms (ditto)

I know I need to get them on a good pellet diet, I need to order some hikari carivore online since no stores carry it around me.

EDIT: My substrate is aquaquartz pool filter sand.

 

[gtpsuper24]

Polys can do some strange things sometimes. I would just wait it out alittle and see, although theres not much you can do really. Mine does some weird things too, my big ansorgii hybrid acts likes its sneezing or something every time I change the water, afterwards hes just fine till I change the water again.

I would replace the shrimp pellets with carnivor pellets, I would also add some frozen sand eels(smells really bad they love them), catfish fillet from grocery store, ect... Variety is good.

 

[dani_starr]

Hmm okay. Is the breathing with the mouth shutting and opening normal as well?

I plan to replace them with the hikari carnivore pellets (I'm not even using the shrimp pellets anymore). I won't do frozen fish/crustaceans from the grocery store though, I refuse to buy it. (I'm vegan). So far, I stick with frozen mysis shrimp, brine shrimp, bloodworms, and the "freshwater frenzy" along with the "emerald entree" or whatever it's called.

I'm looking into live black worms though, and other stuff like that.

 

[Options]

try nls thera -a! All of my polys go berzerk for it and even my knife and datnoid love it.

 

[Llamalord]

Hmm okay. Is the breathing with the mouth shutting and opening normal as well?

I plan to replace them with the hikari carnivore pellets (I'm not even using the shrimp pellets anymore). I won't do frozen fish/crustaceans from the grocery store though, I refuse to buy it. (I'm vegan). So far, I stick with frozen mysis shrimp, brine shrimp, bloodworms, and the "freshwater frenzy" along with the "emerald entree" or whatever it's called.

I'm looking into live black worms though, and other stuff like that.

Opening and closing the mouth is the way polys force water through their gills (enabling absorption of dissolved oxygen), opening and closing their mouths is something they continuously do, this is then supplemented by air gulping.
As for the food I just have a quick question, I'm not trying to start an argument or anything just curious. If you're feeding mysis shrimp, brine shrimp, and blood worms what is the difference of feeding fillets or market shrimp? Both are the same in that their animal protein. As with any animal you're going to want to feed your poly a varied diet. This would normally include a good pellet (glad to hear you'll be getting hikari the stores near me don't have it either :/ ), fillets (tillapia is the most recommended), market shrimp/prawns, and worms like earth and black worms.

 

[dani_starr]

Opening and closing the mouth is the way polys force water through their gills (enabling absorption of dissolved oxygen), opening and closing their mouths is something they continuously do, this is then supplemented by air gulping.
As for the food I just have a quick question, I'm not trying to start an argument or anything just curious. If you're feeding mysis shrimp, brine shrimp, and blood worms what is the difference of feeding fillets or market shrimp? Both are the same in that their animal protein. As with any animal you're going to want to feed your poly a varied diet. This would normally include a good pellet (glad to hear you'll be getting hikari the stores near me don't have it either :/ ), fillets (tillapia is the most recommended), market shrimp/prawns, and worms like earth and black worms.

Ah okay, it's not so noticeable when Nim (who's a little smaller) does it then.

I completely understand. The frozen stuff are insects, which I am pretty certain don't feel pain (I believe it's because they don't have a CNS..). While I know fish do (and in my opinion, there are very few humane ways to kill a fish, and even they are debatable), and I'm pretty sure shrimp/prawns do as well, I will look into the shrimp/prawns some more though if they can feel pain.

Along with the fact that buying frozen fish/shrimp/prawns supports the industry (factoring farming kinda stuff), which I try to avoid doing. While buying frozen insects for fish food, just supports the frozen fish food industry, which I am okay with.

As for worms, I'm okay with black worms as I believe they too don't feel pain, and even if earthworms don't as well (I'm pretty sure they don't), I like them far too much (I'm that crazy person who will save them from drowning in the gutters) to feed them to my fish.

I'm fairly certain that all may not make sense, but it makes sense to me.

But yes, I will be for sure getting the hikari carnivore, and look more into other foods as well.

 

[gtpsuper24]

Ummm You do realize that Hikari Carnivore has Fish Meal in it right? Thats made up of several different fish species mixed together plus fish oils and shrimp/krill as well. They dump all the fish whole and pieces into a grinder along with anything else that gets in there, krill, shrimps, prawns and it gets blended up along with the seaweeds, and vitamin and minerals.

You are a vegan which is totally find, my brother is too, but your fish are not vegans they eat a large variety of foods in the wild, including small birds and other living things that fall that they can get ahold of. Your bichirs are going to get large that bloodworms and mysis shrimp are not going to be enough for them.

 

[dani_starr]

Yes, I do realize that the fish pellets have fish in them, but I feel better buying that then I do buying the other stuff. They grind them up dead, right?

You bring up a good point, and I realize that as they get bigger, they will need larger foods, so I will end up buying happy, humane, organic fish amd shrimp for them (shhh don't tell my boyfriend ) as they get a little bigger and need larger foods. As I definitely don't want to jeopardize my babies health. So don't worry, I won't starve them!