Bartoni Bloat

[WildCAught]

I got 5 Bartoni from Ewok approx. two months ago, maybe less. they were young shapeless fry at the time. 4 made it to the 1.5" mark. I was pretty excited as these were fish I've been after for a while. Three died over the weekend and one seems to be recovering. Last week I noticed my tank was a little cooler than normal and was making plans to buy a new heater. I'm pretty sure that the temp is what set off the bloat. I do 50-70% water changes weekly, especially on this tank (a 60g in my office)... so I know water quality is not an issue. I get it tested twice a month and my readings are always great. Don't ask me for numbers because I get it done at my friends LFS. I've been feeding them tropical flakes, brine shrimp (frozen), spirulina flakes, Cichlid gold pellets, and sinking granules. I know they are primarely algae grazers and I fed high protein so that could also be the culprit.

Who has experience with Bartoni? I have heard that they are a little difficult/sensitive when younger but did not expect this...
I've raised young Grammodes with out so much as a problem. This is very dissapointing since I pride my self in water maintenance. Even more disappointing because these are awesome fish that I've grown out since they were probably two weeks old. They packed on so much size so quickly even outgrowing the Motas who were the same size/age.

It seems some of my sajica may have been affected as well probably from ingesting infected feces... . Now they're huffing. I treated with tetracyline over the weekend and all the survivors are doing well and showing interest in food. I have not fed them since friday though. I'm planning on soking flake in Oxy-tetracycline since it is a great all around med. It treats protozoan, bacterial etc. Hopefully that will knock out whats in their gut.

 

[killerfish]

no experience with bartoni

but veggies are the key to preventing bloat for future record to much protein and to little veggies will do it sounds like you all ready now that

epson salt is a good cure from what i've heard not sure how much to use but others will

 

[WildCAught]

Yeah the more I think about it the more it seems likely that that was the case.

BTW I got them from ewok and am not saying these came from him in bad condition. He is a great fishkeeper with a serious take on the hobby. They were healthy when I acquired them

Just wanted to clear that up.

 

[japes]

Is the 60-75% change all at once? That's probably a little more than what I'd want to do in any one change on a tank with juveniles. As stated, vegetables, especially peas will help prevent or at the very least not cause bloat, and food with garlic additives like NLS will also help.

 

[WildCAught]

Yeah, water changes are 60-75 percent. I don't touch the filter media during these water changes so it does not remove any colonized bacteria. On the third week I rinse out the pads but do a 30% water change. That is the regiment I stick to during warmer months. That hasn't given me a problem yet, in fact I have less problems when I stick to high volume water changes.

As far as cooked peas go I assume you need to remove the outer shell for smaller fish . What other veggies do you recommend? I've fed zucchini, Peas and Romaine to my Synspilum's in the past. Just wondering what else to try.

 

[ewok]

hey dude, thanks for the vouch and i'm very happy to hear that 4 of the 5 actually made it this far! the fish were like 2 week old fry, people and it's great to hear that they made it this far. this certainly speaks of javier's experience in keeping fish.
i had my black nasties bloat up before after a water change. this was around 'winter' time in socal and the water from the hose outside must have only been around 45-50F or something. my tank water was in the 80s. i changed around 50% of the water and the thermal difference must have triggered something because my male, which was very healthy and had a voracious appetite just lost that glow and eventually bloated up and died despite my best efforts.
i personally don't buy the veggie diet thing as far as black nasties are concerned - i think they are probably more carnivorous in terms of diet. bartonis from what i've read actually eat decomposing plant matter and pick on that stuff. i've fed the parent's of javier's fry all sorts of thing, but predominately tetra flakes.
i hope this one makes it, dude! keep us up to date!

 

[Jason_S]

with new world cichlids I disagree that protein has anything to do with bloat. this is an ongoing debate all over the online fish commity as to what exactly causes it, especially in species such as haitiensis and istlanum...bartoni could fall into that group as well as several Thorichthys species.


In my opinion the kep to preventing bloat in these species is providing more than enough oxygen in the water. Add airstones or powerheads to keep the water moving and aerated. I bought a group of 3 haitiensis from a pet store in Indy once just to test my theory. I fed them all kinds of high protein foods such as meaty pellets, frozen brine shrimp and bloodworms, live blackworms as well as frozen and freeze dried krill that was incredibly high in protein. I also put powerheads on the tank with extra filtration and 30% weekly water changes and the dominant male grew to around 4" in almost no time and killed the other 2. Unfortunately he was later killed when I had to move him to a larger tank with other tankmates but I am convinced that aeration, filtration, water changes and oxygen are the keys to preventing bloat.

 

[WildCAught]

I agree with you ewok. Certain fish like Haits and Grammodes that are bloat prone have a Piscivorous/ protein rich diet.

I primarily fed the Bartoni the tetramin tropical flakes along with spirulina flakes. As of now the lone Bartoni lost a bit of the belly, he had a few sinking morsels soaked in oxy-tetracycline. The sajica seem to be recovering and regaining their color. Hopefully he doesn't croak.

 

[WildCAught]

Thanks Jason. i'm gonna be adding a powerhead in the near future. I currently have two penguin Biowheel 350's doing my circulation. I keep the water level pretty high so I'm sure they're not providing enough turbulence/ gas exchange.

 

[Jason_S]

Thanks Jason. i'm gonna be adding a powerhead in the near future. I currently have two penguin Biowheel 350's doing my circulation. I keep the water level pretty high so I'm sure they're not providing enough turbulence/ gas exchange.

Yeah then definitely add that extra movement with the powerhead and I'd be willing to be they'll be fine. I asked Rusty Wessel once about the haitiensis and if they needed low protein foods and he acted surprised at the question and explained they are primarily piscivores (fish eaters) in the wild so they're always on a high protein diet. The thing to remember is these species we're talking about are mostly riverine species. They come from fast flowing, turbulent waters that are rich in oxygen and always very clean so that's the key to keeping them in top condition in captivity.