I bought my beanis from rapps and talked to him about the bloat problem and he told me just to watch the amount that i fed my beanis. I have stuck to a low protien diet and 2 small feedings a day with little to no aggression with my freddy growouts and I've lost 2 out of the 4 i got and im about to lose my 3rd juvenile.
Beani Dilemma advice needed.
- Thread starter superman818
- Start date
I dont think youre paranoid at all.
Based on MY EXPERIENCE (which Id guess some posting on this thread have none of with Beani, or at least not any for any length of time), the likely hood that that beani will survive for longer than a few months in a 250 with other tankmates is slim to none.
Id be willing to bet a large sum of money on it. Just look around. You cant show me 1 single tank on here that has a large beani in a community tank or has for an extended period of time.
Maybe there is a 4"er living in fear hiding in caves in someones tank or maybe theres one in a way overcrowded tank in a situation that forces the fish unnaturally to have no certain fish to take aggression out on, but show it to me next year still alive and thriving and I might have a different view.
It will also probably take you every bit of knowledge, education, experience, patience and luck you have to keep it alive on its own in a solo tank.
Based on MY EXPERIENCE (which Id guess some posting on this thread have none of with Beani, or at least not any for any length of time), the likely hood that that beani will survive for longer than a few months in a 250 with other tankmates is slim to none.
Id be willing to bet a large sum of money on it. Just look around. You cant show me 1 single tank on here that has a large beani in a community tank or has for an extended period of time.
Maybe there is a 4"er living in fear hiding in caves in someones tank or maybe theres one in a way overcrowded tank in a situation that forces the fish unnaturally to have no certain fish to take aggression out on, but show it to me next year still alive and thriving and I might have a different view.
It will also probably take you every bit of knowledge, education, experience, patience and luck you have to keep it alive on its own in a solo tank.
Although some of this is true there are many people on here that kept beanis in community tanks for a few years. But its true that they are in the top 5 hardest fish to keep alive for long periods of time. In my experience of keeping them as juveniles is a bad idea the last 2 of my 4 are probly gonna die and ive done everything i could to keep them alive. Ive had them a few months and up until 2 weeks ago they started going down hill one by one. My father back in the 80's had a 10inch beani for about 4 years until it just died one night. Awesome fish but will cost you alot of money just to get one to stay alive
Unfortunately, there is NO proof that anyone has ever kept 1 single beani in a community as an adult or even sub adult and even then for any extended amount of time.
The closest thing Ive seen is AquaMojos beani pair with SD's or some large dithers but if I recall correctly, it even ended up in some sort of fatality after he divided the tank.
there was a member who posted his collection a few months ago who had one in a community for 2 years i believe but cant remember his name. They are a difficult fish to keep. I'll leave it at that
Back to the bloat issue. I recently (this morning) sent an email to National Fish Pharmaceuticals. inquiring about this dilemma.
They responded with this:
Hi Shawn,
"Malawi Bloat" in cichlids is due to Hexamita, a protozoa.
Bloat can also be caused by feeding way too much pelletized food high in protein. Here at National Fish, we do not use pelletized foods at all. They back the fish up as the pellets swell from coming into contact with water, and some fish have a difficult time digesting.
Using salt in your fish tanks or Koi pond will also make them bloat up, before killing them. This is why we make such a big deal out of the salted freshwater aquarium nonsense.
Best regards,
Dr. Brian G. Aukes; PhD
c/o National Fish Pharmaceuticals
http://www.nationalfishpharm.com
Learn something new every day.
Part of that response could start another large debate regarding salt in the aquarium. Hmmmmm.
I understand what your saying and what your getting at. I personally am very curious as to the outcome of mine. I currently have a 5" male in a community tank with other Cichlids. It is not overcrowded, but it does have 4 other fish of equal size and a few others around the 9 to 10" mark. It does not hide in fear, but also does not wonder about that tank much either. It hangs over in its area, and so far is a perfect tank mate. It comes up and eats with the rest of them, and soon retreats back to his area. I am hoping to get him to live till he is full grown, and to see if he can coexist with others.
He is definitely a project, only because I have had no luck with Beani at a small size, and I acquired him when he was 3". So I am doing everything to make him comfortable and happy.
So far so good.
They responded with this:
Hi Shawn,
"Malawi Bloat" in cichlids is due to Hexamita, a protozoa.
Bloat can also be caused by feeding way too much pelletized food high in protein. Here at National Fish, we do not use pelletized foods at all. They back the fish up as the pellets swell from coming into contact with water, and some fish have a difficult time digesting.
Using salt in your fish tanks or Koi pond will also make them bloat up, before killing them. This is why we make such a big deal out of the salted freshwater aquarium nonsense.
Best regards,
Dr. Brian G. Aukes; PhD
c/o National Fish Pharmaceuticals
http://www.nationalfishpharm.com
Learn something new every day.
Part of that response could start another large debate regarding salt in the aquarium. Hmmmmm.
I understand what your saying and what your getting at. I personally am very curious as to the outcome of mine. I currently have a 5" male in a community tank with other Cichlids. It is not overcrowded, but it does have 4 other fish of equal size and a few others around the 9 to 10" mark. It does not hide in fear, but also does not wonder about that tank much either. It hangs over in its area, and so far is a perfect tank mate. It comes up and eats with the rest of them, and soon retreats back to his area. I am hoping to get him to live till he is full grown, and to see if he can coexist with others.
He is definitely a project, only because I have had no luck with Beani at a small size, and I acquired him when he was 3". So I am doing everything to make him comfortable and happy.
So far so good.
If you can find it, Id love to see it and know the scenario. Thanks!
I understand what your saying and what your getting at. I personally am very curious as to the outcome of mine. I currently have a 5" male in a community tank with other Cichlids. It is not overcrowded, but it does have 4 other fish of equal size and a few others around the 9 to 10" mark. It does not hide in fear, but also does not wonder about that tank much either. It hangs over in its area, and so far is a perfect tank mate. It comes up and eats with the rest of them, and soon retreats back to his area. I am hoping to get him to live till he is full grown, and to see if he can coexist with others.
He is definitely a project, only because I have had no luck with Beani at a small size, and I acquired him when he was 3". So I am doing everything to make him comfortable and happy.
So far so good.
Nice. I hope it works out for you. I think if youve gotten it to 5" in a community, its made it through the toughest part and might be able to handle the rest.
With the reemergence of beani in the hobby lately from Joe, Dan Woodland and Dan @ COA, Id be curious to know its lineage. I think that, as you and most probably do, as generation after generation are being born into tanks, they are able to adapt better to stress/ man made diet, the chemicals in said diet, the water we have them in & the chemicals we use to treat their water. Maybe in a few yrs if not sooner, we will all be able to keep beani the way we do most Amph species. With ease.
Also, I do know that its the luck of the draw with wilds or F1s etc...and if you are able to get one at 2-3+", you stand a 500% chance of keeping it alive than you do getting them at 2" or less.
Good Luck with it! Glad to hear someones got one with other fish and its still alive and being social. Thats a great sign.
Salt and pellets kill your fish now eh? Guess there's no profit in salt if you're running a fish pharmaceutical company.
And just to add, Umbeeking has a video on his YouTube account of him feeding his adult (awesome looking) beani a live mouse. Don't think it's bloated up yet...
And just to add, Umbeeking has a video on his YouTube account of him feeding his adult (awesome looking) beani a live mouse. Don't think it's bloated up yet...
More like there's a sucker born every day.
Yes, "bloat" is typically caused by internal flagellates, in tropical fish usually Spironucleus vortens, something that I have only mentioned several dozen times on this forum over the years. Will that come across as more credible if I add a PhD after my name? If so, just call me Dr. Neil.
In a healthy fish S. vortens is commonly found in the flagellated stage in the lumen of the upper intestine where it is controlled by the immune system of the fish. In a stressed fish, the immune system becomes compromised, and these flagellates multiply unchecked causing serious localised damage. Once the damage is severe enough the intestinal lining is penetrated and the flagellates enter the blood stream causing systemic and organ infections, failure, and ultimately death of the fish.
If/when diet is the cause of bloat (which IMO is seldom the case) the trigger is caused by poor quality ingredients that the fish has difficulty digesting. (usually cheap grain fillers) If a fish can't digest the food, then it can lead to impactions in the gut. The fish stops eating (as it can't pass what's already in it) the impacted area goes septic from multiplying bacteria, and the result can be (and quite often is) deadly.
The science is clear on this, there is no debate.
Salt only becomes an issue if the fish is already suffering from bloat symptoms, due to the fact that by that point the fishes organs are beginning to shut down, and due to the osmoregulatory stress caused from that scenario the last thing you want to do is add additional stress by increasing the sodium levels of your tank water.
While I do not personally typically add salt as part of a regular regimen with any of my freshwater fish, doing so will not cause bloat in cichlids. Anyone that suggests otherwise is spending too much time drinking from the fountain of stupid. And as Jeff suggested, salt is just a wee bit cheaper than the drugs the boys at National Fish Pharmaceuticals are selling.
I think that's wishful thinking. There are numerous cichlid species that are prone to bloat, many of them found in the Rift Lakes & even those removed by hundreds/thousands of generations from the wild, bloat is still a major issue in keeping them thriving in a glass box. It always comes back to stress as being the trigger that causes bloat in all of these various species.
For decades Tropheus keepers felt that due to the intestinal length & long digestive process in that species, it should only be fed low protein "green" food, and that any amount of animal based protein could cause bloat. Yet science has proven that in captive bred species of Tropheus the intestinal length can be half of what's found in wild specimens.
A more recent study that was published in 2009 demonstrates just how great intestinal plasticity can be in response to the diet quality of a fish in the wild.
http://limnology.wisc.edu/personnel..._Functional-Ecology-LT-cichlid-gut-length.pdf
While I agree that captive bred species will generally always adapt better to aquarium conditions than wild fish, the above clearly demonstrates just how adaptive cichlds can be when it comes to their diet. As long as one feeds a quality food, diet will be a non issue, and will not cause any type of major gastrointestinal stress. Apparently with Beanis, even live mice can be eaten without issue. lol
The bottom line is the vast majority of stress that's created in an aquarium, is done by the hobbyist themselves while attempting to push the envelope. Some fish can handle the stress of constant aggression from fellow tank mates in comm settings, some fold under the pressure. Sometimes just adding one more fish can cause the whole house of cards to come tumbling down. Some hobbyists come to understand the limitations of their tanks & fish early on, some never figure it out.
