Opinions will always vary, just read what you can about it and be your own judge. Ive known people that have used it with no problems and I also know people who have had fish get sick. But in my opinion fish should get a variety of foods to keep them healthy, both pellets and straight protein..whether or not you are pro beef heart.
Beefheart question
- Thread starter doomiedee
- Start date
I agree with nutrition information alrwady given. However, it can be good idea to have fish, especially discus, used to eating a home-made frozen mix, so can add medicine to batch of mix and fish will know to eat. Especially useful for discus, because any new discus always assumed to be carrying parasites. Not good for beef heart to be ONLY ingredient in home-made mix, but can be one of several different ingredients in home-made mix.
For feeding blood worms and brine shrimp, assume only safe blood worms and brine shrimp are freeze-dried blood worms and brine shrimp. Even frozen ones, parasite eggs are not killed by being frozen. Imagine water used to grow blood worms and brine shrimp. Once think stop drink. Pellets have no parasites, OK, but, need to find balance between making sure fish not get parasites and letting fish get very yummy special food treats. I think much less chance of parasites if use food treats fit for humans, because of health regulations, eg, crayfish, oysters, fish fillets etc from fish market, and dried shrimp, dried kelp, dried pearl meat etc from Asian food grocers.
Will try find fish food treat recipe to share.
For feeding blood worms and brine shrimp, assume only safe blood worms and brine shrimp are freeze-dried blood worms and brine shrimp. Even frozen ones, parasite eggs are not killed by being frozen. Imagine water used to grow blood worms and brine shrimp. Once think stop drink. Pellets have no parasites, OK, but, need to find balance between making sure fish not get parasites and letting fish get very yummy special food treats. I think much less chance of parasites if use food treats fit for humans, because of health regulations, eg, crayfish, oysters, fish fillets etc from fish market, and dried shrimp, dried kelp, dried pearl meat etc from Asian food grocers.
Will try find fish food treat recipe to share.
RD as usual with the nutrition knows what hes talking about... my polys and gar do get beefheart but its on rare occasion.. i have it so i use it. but it can and will cause health issues in any sort of regular use. trying to simulate natural foods imo is the best nutrition for your fish. variety is best imo as well.
im not sure how beefheart in any form or fashion is similar to Discus' natural diet?
im not sure how beefheart in any form or fashion is similar to Discus' natural diet?
I would use freeze dried krill etc than the dried stuff from the Asian market. I joke with my wife that my fish is getting better stuff than I do.
And yes I am Asian.
Sent from my iPhone using MonsterAquariaNetwork app
And yes I am Asian.
Sent from my iPhone using MonsterAquariaNetwork app
With regards to Discus, the following is a repost that I made a couple of years ago on MFK.
In the Dec 2006 edition of TFH the God of Discus himself, Jack Wattley, stated:
http://www.scielo.br/scielo.php?script=sci_arttext&pid=S1679-62252008000400008
The scientific journal linked to above pretty much clears up the myth that discus are a highly carnivorous species that require massive amounts of protein for proper growth.
Chong et al ran a 3 month feed trial on juvenile discus (fish approx. 4.5grams in weight) and concluded that a diet consisting of 45-50% protein, and 8% fat was ideal for optimum growth for juveniles of this species.
I have no argument with those stats, and the same could be said for hundreds/thousands of ornamental species, but somehow this data has been used by certain segments of the discus world to support their use of a high protein diet (such as beefheart) throughout the various life stages of the fish.
Chong et al used fish meal as the source of protein (along with casein & gelatine as binding agents) in their study, not beefheart, and those levels of protein/fat were for juvenile discus, not adults, or even semi adults.
In Heiko Bleher's Discus book vol 1. it also gives a full description of wild Discus nutrition and states that the 5 most common items eaten by discus in the wild are; detritus, vegetable matter, algae & micro algae, aquatic invertebrates, terrestrial & arboreal arthropods.
If one feels the need to supplement their fishes diet, I would think that insects such as ants, spiders, cricket parts, mealworms, etc would be far better suited to their digestive system, than foods such as beefheart.
While a high protein, high fat (or incorrect type of fat) diet may indeed bring on swift growth, over the long haul it can also eventually result in excess lipid deposition and necrosis of the liver, ultimately leading to premature death. In essence a discus that is fed a less than ideal diet and that dies at the ripe old age of 5-10 yrs, may have possibly reached 15-20 yrs (or longer) with a more properly balanced diet. Perhaps to some people this isn't important?
Also if too much excess protein is supplied in a fishes diet, due to the energy required to deaminate & excrete those excess amino acids, one can actually experience a decrease in the growth of the fish. (Chong et al have also commented about this) So not only can crude protein in excess of the fishes requirement lead to excess excretion of ammonia via the gills and excess nitrogen from the feces (as in excess pollution to your tank), it can also be counter productive to the growth of the fish.
In the Dec 2006 edition of TFH the God of Discus himself, Jack Wattley, stated:
http://www.scielo.br/scielo.php?script=sci_arttext&pid=S1679-62252008000400008
The scientific journal linked to above pretty much clears up the myth that discus are a highly carnivorous species that require massive amounts of protein for proper growth.
Chong et al ran a 3 month feed trial on juvenile discus (fish approx. 4.5grams in weight) and concluded that a diet consisting of 45-50% protein, and 8% fat was ideal for optimum growth for juveniles of this species.
I have no argument with those stats, and the same could be said for hundreds/thousands of ornamental species, but somehow this data has been used by certain segments of the discus world to support their use of a high protein diet (such as beefheart) throughout the various life stages of the fish.
Chong et al used fish meal as the source of protein (along with casein & gelatine as binding agents) in their study, not beefheart, and those levels of protein/fat were for juvenile discus, not adults, or even semi adults.
In Heiko Bleher's Discus book vol 1. it also gives a full description of wild Discus nutrition and states that the 5 most common items eaten by discus in the wild are; detritus, vegetable matter, algae & micro algae, aquatic invertebrates, terrestrial & arboreal arthropods.
If one feels the need to supplement their fishes diet, I would think that insects such as ants, spiders, cricket parts, mealworms, etc would be far better suited to their digestive system, than foods such as beefheart.
While a high protein, high fat (or incorrect type of fat) diet may indeed bring on swift growth, over the long haul it can also eventually result in excess lipid deposition and necrosis of the liver, ultimately leading to premature death. In essence a discus that is fed a less than ideal diet and that dies at the ripe old age of 5-10 yrs, may have possibly reached 15-20 yrs (or longer) with a more properly balanced diet. Perhaps to some people this isn't important?
Also if too much excess protein is supplied in a fishes diet, due to the energy required to deaminate & excrete those excess amino acids, one can actually experience a decrease in the growth of the fish. (Chong et al have also commented about this) So not only can crude protein in excess of the fishes requirement lead to excess excretion of ammonia via the gills and excess nitrogen from the feces (as in excess pollution to your tank), it can also be counter productive to the growth of the fish.
I agree with cutting fat from beef heart and do not feed only beef heart to fish, but also, I do not like idea that natural diet is necessary or best for fish in aquaculture. Fish in home is different kettle of fish to fish in nature. Fish do not find beef heart in nature, this may be true (unless cow drown in water), but fish also do not find wheat germ or flour or soybean or poultry farm eggs or silkworms or earthworms or marigolds or even brine shrimp (is not found in most aquarium fish biotopes) in nature.
I do not want job as beef heart merchant, but also see no need for 3rd stock response on MFK as follows: i) Get bigger tank (I agree), ii) Do water change (I agree), but now iii) Do not feed beef heart (I do not agree). "Nemo not FW fish" should be number 3. Maybe make "Do not feed beef heart" rank number 127.
Kuji out.
I do not want job as beef heart merchant, but also see no need for 3rd stock response on MFK as follows: i) Get bigger tank (I agree), ii) Do water change (I agree), but now iii) Do not feed beef heart (I do not agree). "Nemo not FW fish" should be number 3. Maybe make "Do not feed beef heart" rank number 127.
Kuji out.
I feed my cichlids pellets lol I call it miracle grow. Its hikari cichlids staple and tetra cichlid sticks. Both promt optimal growth.
Sent from my Comet using MonsterAquariaNetwork App
How dare insinuate people wanting high growth rate for fish are not interested in fish having long life-span! No need for 3D TV if only see black and white.
Kuji - feel free to feed your fish what you like. I personally couldn't give a flying flip whether you agree with me, or not.
