beneficial bacteria

[cichlidfish]

Hello; My take is that the bb are on surfaces thru out a tank with likely higher concentrations of colonies where there is water flow. I think this because the bb "feed" on ammonia and water flow should be more likely to carry the ammonia across some surfaces more than others. The power filter parts will be one of these areas. I consider the tubes, boxes and such of a filter to be as likely to have bb colonies as the filter media.

The substrate should have bb colonies but might be more restricted to areas near the top and not so much deeper in the substrate where water flow may be much less. Exceptions may be those of us who still use the UGF's ( undergravel filters) where a water flow is created into the substrate. large fish that plow up the substrate may encourage more growth of bb colonies.

Fine substrates like sand are reported by members to be prone to growth of anaerobic bacteria if the depth is over an inch. This seems to me to indicate that the bb likely are not be found deep in such substrates.

My take is the bb are on many surfaces in a tank as well as the filter media and substrate.

Thanks for the info.

Not to jack this thread, but this raises a question on my tanks. I use a combo of sand, crushed coral, and small pebbles. It is over an inch in depth. Is that too much?
I have earth eating cichlids mostly, and they are constantly picking a the surface of the substrait, but never go too deep. Wouldn't deep sand trap more waste that isn't being eaten by the bacteria? I have always thought this so when I do water changes, I stir up the sand after I get the waste on the surface of the sand.

 

[skjl47]

Thanks for the info.

Not to jack this thread, but this raises a question on my tanks. I use a combo of sand, crushed coral, and small pebbles. It is over an inch in depth. Is that too much?
I have earth eating cichlids mostly, and they are constantly picking a the surface of the substrait, but never go too deep. Wouldn't deep sand trap more waste that isn't being eaten by the bacteria? I have always thought this so when I do water changes, I stir up the sand after I get the waste on the surface of the sand.

Hello; I have not used fine sand for several decades so will not be the be the best current authority on this question. Seems that the mix of materials you have may create enough gaps to help avoid the anaerobic (without oxygen) pockets. The action of the eartheaters likely helps and stirring up the sand is reported to be a way to avoid the build up of anaerobic toxins. ( I guess methane gas might be one)

The bb that consume ammonia may not also be involved in the decay process of waste. I am not sure about this. My guess is that there are other "decomposers" that work on breaking down tank waste. I also think the process of decomposition releases some ammonia as well.
I guess there are at least two sorts of waste to think about. There are solid bits of waste such as excess food, fish poo , bits of live plants and such. These can be siphoned out during a water change and trapped by filters that operate to remove stuff mechanically. Not sure how this sort of waste gets deep into undisturbed substrate. When I do a siphon there tends to be more stuff in the upper parts of my gravel substrate.
The other sort of waste will be stuff in the water like ammonia. My guess being this sort can be most anywhere in a tank but may be a bit less likely deep in a fine substrate. My first tanks had no filtration and relied on convection to create a flow. Later with air pumps and bubblers I could increase water flow and have perhaps a better chance for bb to be in certain areas. Now with power filters we can have a lot of concentrated flow so the ammonia should have a better chance to pass over the bb colonies before migrating into a fine substrate.

I still use UGF's with bb + sized gravel with the idea that the gentle flow will promote both the establishment of bb colonies as well as other decomposers. I also like to have snails in most all my tanks.

 

[brianf40]

But that would defeat the whole purpose. Using a med that would make conditions hard for fish heal. In therory, if you destroy the BB, you run the risk of ammonia going up. Every med I've used has said safe for BB.
But I don't use meds so much. Prevention is always best, so I keep up on water changes and feed a balanced diet (NLS pellets). Also use aquarium salt when needed. I've had recent success using epsom salt soaked food to treat bloat. So I try to avoid meds altogether.

 

[brianf40]

But that would defeat the whole purpose. Using a med that would make conditions hard for fish heal. In therory, if you destroy the BB, you run the risk of ammonia going up. Every med I've used has said safe for BB.
But I don't use meds so much. Prevention is always best, so I keep up on water changes and feed a balanced diet (NLS pellets). Also use aquarium salt when needed. I've had recent success using epsom salt soaked food to treat bloat. So I try to avoid meds altogether.

I understand all this but sometimes u get one from a LFS and have bloat. They don't eat so meds may be Ur only choice

 

[cichlidfish]

Hello; I have not used fine sand for several decades so will not be the be the best current authority on this question. Seems that the mix of materials you have may create enough gaps to help avoid the anaerobic (without oxygen) pockets. The action of the eartheaters likely helps and stirring up the sand is reported to be a way to avoid the build up of anaerobic toxins. ( I guess methane gas might be one)

The bb that consume ammonia may not also be involved in the decay process of waste. I am not sure about this. My guess is that there are other "decomposers" that work on breaking down tank waste. I also think the process of decomposition releases some ammonia as well.
I guess there are at least two sorts of waste to think about. There are solid bits of waste such as excess food, fish poo , bits of live plants and such. These can be siphoned out during a water change and trapped by filters that operate to remove stuff mechanically. Not sure how this sort of waste gets deep into undisturbed substrate. When I do a siphon there tends to be more stuff in the upper parts of my gravel substrate.
The other sort of waste will be stuff in the water like ammonia. My guess being this sort can be most anywhere in a tank but may be a bit less likely deep in a fine substrate. My first tanks had no filtration and relied on convection to create a flow. Later with air pumps and bubblers I could increase water flow and have perhaps a better chance for bb to be in certain areas. Now with power filters we can have a lot of concentrated flow so the ammonia should have a better chance to pass over the bb colonies before migrating into a fine substrate.

I still use UGF's with bb + sized gravel with the idea that the gentle flow will promote both the establishment of bb colonies as well as other decomposers. I also like to have snails in most all my tanks.

Thanks. What prompt me to stir a sand substrait was that I noticed a sulfur like smell one day moving sand around. Maybe that was methane? Ever since I started stiring up the sand at water change time, it is no longer present.

 

[cichlidfish]

I understand all this but sometimes u get one from a LFS and have bloat. They don't eat so meds may be Ur only choice

Yup I've experienced this. I even saw a tank at a LFS recently that all the fish in one tank had it.
The best you can do it catch bloat before the fish stop eating, but it's not always easy to spot the symptoms in time. I got lucky recently where I saw white stingy poo on a fish that was eating. I did the epsom salt soaked food for 5 days and aggressive water changes. The fish was back to normal in a week! Some people force feed the fish (if big enough) the epsom salt pellets, but the last thing I want to do is stress a fish. RD on here has some good info on how to cure without meds.
Also I now feed any new fish epsom salt soaked food. And I use a quality food like NLS which has pellets for all sized fish. The combo has worked very well for me.

 

[brianf40]

Yup I've experienced this. I even saw a tank at a LFS recently that all the fish in one tank had it.
The best you can do it catch bloat before the fish stop eating, but it's not always easy to spot the symptoms in time. I got lucky recently where I saw white stingy poo on a fish that was eating. I did the epsom salt soaked food for 5 days and aggressive water changes. The fish was back to normal in a week! Some people force feed the fish (if big enough) the epsom salt pellets, but the last thing I want to do is stress a fish. RD on here has some good info on how to cure without meds.
Also I now feed any new fish epsom salt soaked food. And I use a quality food like NLS which has pellets for all sized fish. The combo has worked very well for me.

Yeah i have a small peacock from a LFS that won't eat and he is with another one. I'm going to try clout tomorrow. I'm going to treat both see if I can save the one. The other fish I bought with him show no sign of it.

 

[cichlidfish]

Yeah i have a small peacock from a LFS that won't eat and he is with another one. I'm going to try clout tomorrow. I'm going to treat both see if I can save the one. The other fish I bought with him show no sign of it.

Good luck, hope you can save the little guy. Glad the others are healthy.

 

[duanes]

The rotton egg smell, is Hydrogen sulfide gas.
I don't believe 1" of substrate is too much.
But I always had tons of Malay cone snails living in the substrate of my tanks, and I believe they kept if from cementing, and going anaerobic.
And I agree, beneficial bacteria biofilm eventually covers all surfaces, not just the substrate, and in filters.
In the distribution system of the water supplier I worked for, 2.0 ppm chloramine was not enough to wipe them out, they were found in all parts of the system (higher populations near the end where chloramine residual was the weakest, of course).

 

[brianf40]

Good luck, hope you can save the little guy. Glad the others are healthy.

Lost the little one. Now big one stopped eating. I won't get coat until tomorrow. I added some epsom salt to the QT tank. Maybe that will help a little. Anyone ever give an epsom salt dip for bloat?