David I have never hidden the fact of what company I am associated with. A quick 30 second scan of my previous comments on MFK (including those made today), and even a mental midget could figure that out.
I didn't mention the company or product line as it has nothing to do with the discussion at hand, anymore than if you worked for a frozen fish or shrimp company. You're still wrong, and pointing your finger at me simply shows that you have run out of ammo in this discussion. Not that you ever had any.
As for his remark about manufacturers not revealing content of their food due to proprietary information, that is just flat out BS.
Really? Perhaps you've never heard of a little thing called a confidentiality agreement? It's common in industries such as this where the competition is always attempting to one up everything that other manufacturers do.
It's a legal binding document, and fairly common in many business settings. If you created something that you felt was better than any other similar type of product on the market, would you publicly advertise the minute details of what & how went into that process? Only a moron would do such a thing. This isn't an industry wide conspiracy against consumers, as you would have everyone believe.
Also, I have no problem with those that feed live/frozen foods, and have stated just that many times on this forum, including the last time we crossed swords 4 yrs ago. Here's a direct quote;
David,
Just so there's no confusion on your part, I've never had a problem with anyone that chooses to feed live/frozen foods, even exclusively over commercial foods, but to suggest that this type of feeding will supply more optimum nutrition than a high quality pellet, or that some of these nutrients, such amino acids, vitamins, and minerals are completely lacking in all pellet foods, is so far out there in left field that I found it next to impossible not to respond to those comments.
I also never once stated that earthworms have no nutritional value to a fish, or that one should never feed earthworms.
And exactly how does that make my comments false, or me unethical?
Read the last link I provided again, note where it says that much of the food contains meal made from rejected shrimp or fish and pellet food is processed at high temperature...RD is trying to con you that recycled reject fish or shrimp parts are better than fresh 'for human consumption' shrimp or fish, which is obviously wrong.
So on the words of 1 individual, and 1 article, you have made a determination on ALL commercial foods, as though they are all equal in raw ingredients, and processed under the exact same conditions?
Are you serious?
Using your logic we should all be feeding our dogs kibbles & bits.
And you have the audacity to toss science up in T1's face?
Whoa .......
As far as issues with fat deposition, I have been harping about this long before MFK existed, including in our last discussion 4 yrs ago. This problem is old news to me, and is well known by those who work in the nutrition side of this industry. Below is a comment that I made here on MFK just last week.
Although some people on this site do feed cat food, dog food, hot dogs, and god only knows what else, over the long haul these types of foods are not healthy for a fish.
The crude fat content found in most cat food will be a minimum of 15-20%, which means it could be well over 20% in some formulas. That alone would keep me from feeding that food to fish as it is simply way too high (over double) the fat content that most warm water fish can metabolize & utilize as an energy source.
All of that excess fat settles around the liver, and reduces the lifespan of the fish.
To quote Dr. Ruth Francis-Floyd, a professor at the U of Florida whom is considered by many to be an expert on fish nutrition;
Quote:
"Fatty infiltration of the liver has also been designated "the most common metabolic disturbance and most frequent cause of death in aquarium fish"
Quote:
With prolonged feeding of a high-energy, lipid rich diet, degenerative changes of the liver and death can occur unless the diet is corrected.
Monitoring how your fish appear in your tank won't give you an inside view of fat deposition around their liver. There are studies involving carnivorous species fed high fat (17%) diets, which resulted in excess liver deposition, which if fed over a prolonged period would result in necrosis of the liver.
If cost/savings is an issue, you would be far better off buying a decent quality commercial bulk feed from a feed mill, or your local hardware store. Like most things in life, you get what you pay for.
Please note the last paragraph where I suggested to the OP & others that for their situation they would
"be far better off buying a decent quality commercial bulk feed from a feed mill, or your local hardware store. ".
I must be one crappy salesman, eh?
And on that note I agree with Zoodiver, smaller more frequent feedings are far more ideal for rays than 1 large meal per day. Having said that, both pellets & fresh/frozen cause fatty degeneration of the liver, it all boils down to what, and how much each hobbyist feeds their fish on a daily basis.
I believe that I warned Firemedic about this exact thing when he was
initially feeding his rays Silver Cup's sturgeon feed, which IMO has a rather high lipid content, especially for mature rays. I didn't make a big hoopla over it, or tell him that he was going to kill his rays on that diet, or promote NLS to him. I simply gave him & others a heads up.
What you offer David isn't education, it's simply the rantings of someone who doesn't understand any of the science, so they refuse to accept any of it. That's fine by me, but there's no reason to shoot everyone else down that holds a different opinion than yours.
