Bichers in brackish water?!?!?!?!?!

[Bottomfeeder]

If it's not well-known, leave it to the experts, like the people at TFH or PFK.

When people say stuff like "I am going to convert x fish to y water because I heard - do it", I commend them for wanting to venture into the unknown of the hobby, but it's best left to people who make a living studying and researching fish.

 

[Andrew1002]

I wouldn't try it, Andrew aren't you that guy who keep posting ridiculous threads about a 500g tank you havent even started building yet?

What? My threads aren't ridiculous! People make them ridiculous by posting stupid things on them and detailing them. Don't derail his thread too, keep on track. Pm me if you want to talk to me. Don't derail some other persons thread.

I'M ANDREW AND I'M A FISHAHOLIC
-Andrew

 

[Bottomfeeder]

I'M ANDREW AND I'M A FISHAHOLIC
-Andrew

Dude, put this in your sig. It's annoying to have to see it after post.

 

[Puffer puffer pass]

Not to second guess any of you... (in other words I'm not trying to sound rude if this post does) but do you guys have any factual info to say that they can't survive in brackish? I mean these fish have been found thriving around areas that are very close to the ocean as well as being found in areas completely away from the ocean and even in murky crappy swamps and such... Again please don't think I'm being rude just curious! I don't want to kill him for no reason but if I could keep him with some of my brackish fish I would love to.


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[Bottomfeeder]

Not to second guess any of you... (in other words I'm not trying to sound rude if this post does) but do you guys have any factual info to say that they can't survive in brackish? I mean these fish have been found thriving around areas that are very close to the ocean as well as being found in areas completely away from the ocean and even in murky crappy swamps and such... Again please don't think I'm being rude just curious! I don't want to kill him for no reason but if I could keep him with some of my brackish fish I would love to.


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No, and it's very possible. but it's not well-researched. For all we know, they may only be tolerant of certain salinities where certain pH level or something might be present... who knows? Stuff like this is best left to experts, not experimental fishkeeping.

 

[Zfishies]

Okay, a basic explanation of osmosis:

Because of osmosis, water is drawn from areas of low salt concentration to areas of high salt concentration. With saltwater fish, the concentration of salt in their external environment is higher than that within their bodies, so the water is constantly drawn out of them. To compensate, they constantly drink water, which creates an equilibrium. With freshwater fish, the concentration of salt within their bodies is higher than that of their external environment, so they are constantly absorbing water. To create their equilibrium, they have to urinate constantly. If you put a freshwater fish in saltwater, it will have a lower salt concentration in its body than in its external environment, so it will be losing water the same way a saltwater fish will, but it will continue to urinate rather than drinking the water as the saltwater fish do, so it will dehydrate and die.

Certain freshwater fishes, like salmon, bull sharks, scats, monos, etc. are able to adapt to environments of different salinities (although until this thread, I've never heard of Chana, Clarias, or gars being in this category), but most cannot, and it has nothing to do with their hardiness in other situations.


Edit: just noticed what I said in the last sentence of my previous post; that was incorrect, I'm not sure what I was thinking there.

So If I understood you correctly fw fish have high concentrations of salt and sw do not so their environments give them the nutrients they need? Like the right amount of everything, including salt(in a perfect environment). But does this apply to atmospheric breathers also? Yes they will be "drinking" the water but to what amount of salt does it kill them at? Maybe they can tolerate high rates of salt? So then the salt from ocean would not be enough to kill them?


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[Zfishies]

No, and it's very possible. but it's not well-researched. For all we know, they may only be tolerant of certain salinities where certain pH level or something might be present... who knows? Stuff like this is best left to experts, not experimental fishkeeping.

Agreed, I just want to know more and more I love this hobby and hope to make it a profession of mine one day.


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[jclyde13]

So If I understood you correctly fw fish have high concentrations of salt and sw do not so their environments give them the nutrients they need? Like the right amount of everything, including salt(in a perfect environment). But does this apply to atmospheric breathers also? Yes they will be "drinking" the water but to what amount of salt does it kill them at? Maybe they can tolerate high rates of salt? So then the salt from ocean would not be enough to kill them?


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I'm not sure how the internal salinities compare between fw and sw fish, I just know that they each are adapted to living within different salinities, so they go about maintaining water levels in opposite ways. And I would think "too much salt" would probably be at the point where the fish begins losing water at a higher rate than it is gaining water. What specific concentration would cause that to happen -- I have no idea, but I would think it would vary from species to species, and probably even between individuals of the same species.

As for the atmospheric breathing question, I still don't see the connection you are drawing between the ability to breath atmospheric oxygen and the ability to survive higher salinities.


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[Puffer puffer pass]

Agreed, I just want to know more and more I love this hobby and hope to make it a profession of mine one day.


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That's the same here I actually just got a 90g the other night so I can keep my bicher in it! My girlfriend is pretty pissed that I don't take care of her the same! Hahaha

Yeah I think instead of gambling with fishes lives we should just do research this stuff! Exactly why I'm talking to you guys... Thanks for all the info by the way to all of you!


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[syddakyd]

i have read that they can handle very low end brackish but my question is why do you want this. you will have more tankmates in pure fresh. low end brackish fish would get eaten by bichirs as they are all small. monos and scats and green spotteds go full marine. figure8s wouldnt do good. perhaps an anableps but im not to sure about them. archers need higher salt. just keep it fresh with plants and big peaceful tankmates