So then filstars and biomax are ment to be under water? There is the bottom part of the sump where 1 inch of bioballs are under water, is that where they should go. So i dont get benefited by having these above water, i was thinking exposing them to air would be the ticket?
Bio media in a sump
- Thread starter HugeGhost
- Start date
Filstars biochem stars work best when fully submersed and are in an area of HIGH WATER FLOW, so in other words, they will work much better where water is constantly moving around them, rather than sitting in still water, but this goes for any media
I have them ontop of my bioballs at the moment along with biomax and ehiem substrate, so air does no good for them?? They get constant water coming from the drip tray and seem to be exposed to water flow and air!!!!!street cypher;538907; said:
street cypher;538907; said:
I have to disagree with street cypher in this statement.
We use these filters to reduce ammonia and other nitrogenous waste from tank water. This is done by bacteria that oxidize these compounds (add oxygen) and use the energy released in the process to drive their metabolisms. The graeter the amount of oxygen present, the faster these reactions can take place and the faster the water gets cleaned up.
The atmosphere is roughly 20% oxygen and warm well aerated water would max out at 9 parts per million dissolved oxygen. That equates to less than 0.0009% oxygen! Makes you wonder how fish can breath doesnt it?
The bacteria living in a thin film of water on wet biomedia have access to many times more oxygen than those that live in the substrate of the tank. They will therefore be more efficient if you can provide a media that is sprayed rather than immersed in the water of your sump. The thinner the film of water the better (oxygen diffuses into the area around the bacteria faster), the smaller the diameter of the fiber the better ( gives you more surface area for bacteria to colonize), the more rigid the material the better (resists collapse and bridging).
I think that its a toss up between biowheels and pot scrubbies under a shower head as to what is the best bio media for a wet/dry.
P.S. I think that some readers may read this and figure that I must be
so I've included a link which has some information that supports my claims on the amount of dissolved oxygen available in your tank water.
http://lakeaccess.org/russ/oxygen.htm
Potts050;539025; said:I have to disagree with street cypher in this statement.
We use these filters to reduce ammonia and other nitrogenous waste from tank water. This is done by bacteria that oxidize these compounds (add oxygen) and use the energy released in the process to drive their metabolisms. The graeter the amount of oxygen present, the faster these reactions can take place and the faster the water gets cleaned up.
The atmosphere is roughly 20% oxygen and warm well aerated water would max out at 9 parts per million dissolved oxygen. That equates to less than 0.0009% oxygen! Makes you wonder how fish can breath doesnt it?
The bacteria living in a thin film of water on wet biomedia have access to many times more oxygen than those that live in the substrate of the tank. They will therefore be more efficient if you can provide a media that is sprayed rather than immersed in the water of your sump. The thinner the film of water the better (oxygen diffuses into the area around the bacteria faster), the smaller the diameter of the fiber the better ( gives you more surface area for bacteria to colonize), the more rigid the material the better (resists collapse and bridging).
I think that its a toss up between biowheels and pot scrubbies under a shower head as to what is the best bio media for a wet/dry.
P.S. I think that some readers may read this and figure that I must be
so I've included a link which has some information that supports my claims on the amount of dissolved oxygen available in your tank water.
http://lakeaccess.org/russ/oxygen.htm
Wow great info man thanks alot! So my whole sump should be exposed to air, and my media like biomax and filstars and sponges will colonize fast with the water and air and after seeding it with a bottle of cycle bacteria should colonize the sump perfect!
Your entirely welcome! Dont forget to give your filter sufficient time to cycle. You can't rely entirely on bacteria emulsions like "Cycle". Your probaly better off to grab some soil from your garden or compost heap to seed the bacteria colony. The bugs we use are for the most part, are widespread in soils with medium to high organic content.
Potts050;539025; said:I have to disagree with street cypher in this statement.
We use these filters to reduce ammonia and other nitrogenous waste from tank water. This is done by bacteria that oxidize these compounds (add oxygen) and use the energy released in the process to drive their metabolisms. The graeter the amount of oxygen present, the faster these reactions can take place and the faster the water gets cleaned up.
The atmosphere is roughly 20% oxygen and warm well aerated water would max out at 9 parts per million dissolved oxygen. That equates to less than 0.0009% oxygen! Makes you wonder how fish can breath doesnt it?
The bacteria living in a thin film of water on wet biomedia have access to many times more oxygen than those that live in the substrate of the tank. They will therefore be more efficient if you can provide a media that is sprayed rather than immersed in the water of your sump. The thinner the film of water the better (oxygen diffuses into the area around the bacteria faster), the smaller the diameter of the fiber the better ( gives you more surface area for bacteria to colonize), the more rigid the material the better (resists collapse and bridging).
I think that its a toss up between biowheels and pot scrubbies under a shower head as to what is the best bio media for a wet/dry.
P.S. I think that some readers may read this and figure that I must be
so I've included a link which has some information that supports my claims on the amount of dissolved oxygen available in your tank water.
http://lakeaccess.org/russ/oxygen.htm
Didn't you mean living on the bio-media and living off of the thin film of water passing by the media.
If you can keep the bio-material constantly and evenly wet this will work, but if the drip plate or pre-filter clogs or is out of alignment bio-catastrophe. Submerging part of the bio-material could save alot of grief. And an aerator in the bottom of the sump under the bio-media add the aforementioned oxygen.
Three days too late in thinking your
... your just Canadian 
Aeh... 
Cheers,
Dr Joe
.
Dr Joe;539312; said:Didn't you mean living on the bio-media and living off of the thin film of water passing by the media.
If you can keep the bio-material constantly and evenly wet this will work, but if the drip plate or pre-filter clogs or is out of alignment bio-catastrophe. Submerging part of the bio-material could save alot of grief. And an aerator in the bottom of the sump under the bio-media add the aforementioned oxygen.
Three days too late in thinking your
Cheers,
Dr Joe
.
I have been known to be a day late and a dollar short on a few ocaisions but not this time. The bugs we use are soil bacteria and reside in the soil interstices. They do not need to be completely immersed in water to live.
Soil consists of four parts; grits, humus(organic material), air and water. The bacteria work on the humus breaking it down and releasing nutrients for other bacteria and plant roots. It is the first soil component, grit that is similar in purpose to our wet/dry filter media with respect to bacteria.
Grits are further devided into granular, sand, and silts. Sands and silts pay a particular role in the capture or drainage of water in the soil. There can be no bio activity in soil without water and it is the interaction of sand and silts that determine the ability of soils to store water and make it available to bacteria.
Because of surface tension water will form films around grains of sand. These films are sufficiently thick for bacteria to live in with added benefit of a high surface area to volume ratio which facilitates faster oxygen diffusion, to help the bacteria breath and support a high metabolism. Silts or clay particles are very tiny and have elctro-chemical properties, due to their small size.
These fine particles as a rule are flat like dinner plates. On one side they tend to be positively charged and negatively charged on the other. This charge density allows the particles to hold ions like nitrites in place and make them accessable to the bacteria.
The ultimate sump filter would look like a chunk of marshland complete with bog plants growing over a well mixed loose soil. Tank water would be 'flooded' over the surface, allowed to percolate through, collected from below, aerated and returned to tank.
Any way my point is that bio-media need only be damp, not completely immersed in water to be effective. Isnt that what we mean by "wet/dry"?
And thats all I have to say about that, after all being just a dumb Canadian eh.
Dr Joe;539312; said:Didn't you mean living on the bio-media and living off of the thin film of water passing by the media.
If you can keep the bio-material constantly and evenly wet this will work, but if the drip plate or pre-filter clogs or is out of alignment bio-catastrophe. Submerging part of the bio-material could save alot of grief. And an aerator in the bottom of the sump under the bio-media add the aforementioned oxygen.
Three days too late in thinking your
Cheers,
Dr Joe
.
Potts050;539957; said:
OK...First off I never said Dumb Canadian... Just Canadian. Over half my relatives are Canadian (Don't hold that agaist me...
)And second.. What did you do with all the money Mom & Dad gave you for College (University to all the Canadians) you forgot an ' in isn't !!!
My Joke Light is on isn't it? I hope it's bright enough...
OK Now for some seriousness'.
I thought we were speaking of our usual W/D with the scrubbies or other bio-media ( in which the bacteria does not have to be fully immersed either).
In your dissertation (and I say that in a good way) you are spot on. It's nice to know someone else knows about this too. I would add that as the water perculates thru the soil it goes thru an anaerobic bacteria stage also. I used this system (an above ground bog if you will) for a couple of ponds years ago, wonderful.
Also I don't think I know of anyone locally that uses soil (our dirt) to kick start their filters, it very sandy, lacking in humus, and has alot of fungus in most cases (not bacteria) (also has to be sprayed for bugs alot).
Where abouts in Canada are you, sorry if I've asked before, can't find my notes.
Well it's great typing with you...and a word of warning unless it's fish try not to take me too seriously.
Stay warm.
Dr Joe
.
No worries and no offence taken!
You did'nt say DUMB CANADIAN Dr Joe, that was my statement. I AM A (DUMB) CANADIAN and proud of it, eh (pronounced "ay"). Most Canadians are a lot smarter than me...
I live in Southern Ontario at the moment but have had the pleasure of living in every province and territory except Newfoundland, Saskatchewan, and the Yukon.
Garden soil would likely be a poorer choice than some compost. The composted sheep and cattle manure available at garden centers would also be an excellant starter for a bio filter. Just a pinch or two is all you would need. Waste water treatment plants use it in their aeration lagoons from time to time to balance the bug populations.
You did'nt say DUMB CANADIAN Dr Joe, that was my statement. I AM A (DUMB) CANADIAN and proud of it, eh (pronounced "ay"). Most Canadians are a lot smarter than me...
I live in Southern Ontario at the moment but have had the pleasure of living in every province and territory except Newfoundland, Saskatchewan, and the Yukon.
Garden soil would likely be a poorer choice than some compost. The composted sheep and cattle manure available at garden centers would also be an excellant starter for a bio filter. Just a pinch or two is all you would need. Waste water treatment plants use it in their aeration lagoons from time to time to balance the bug populations.
