Bolivian and Blue Rams and tankmates...

[Dark Rose]

Getting ready to start stocking a 29 gallon tank, and really would like some Bolivian Rams or Blue Rams in it, but also some other fish...

So... In order of... no order...

-Will Rams get along fine with the small tetras? (neons, black neons, penguin, and glo-lights)

-What would the stocking limit be in this size tank? I'm hoping for 3-4 rams, and maybe 5 each of the tetras I like (so around 20-ish tetras total). Or is the tank to small for rams in general?

-Do the get along with Cory cats?

-What other community fish in general would be fine in the tank, especially oddballs...

This is in my sons room, planted (not heavily at the moment), Aqueon dual T5 fixture with 6.7k and 5k bulbs, and AquaClear HoB, at the moment running sponge, purigen, and matrix. No C02, if that makes any difference in anything. Looking for color and movement. He'd love a small crab in there, but I don't know enough about them, how well they get along with plants and the fish I want... I want the rams, he wants the tetras, if they don't work, I'll have to figure out a compromise somewhere.

Oh, and my tapwater is quite hard, with a pH of around 7.6
I'm assuming I'll have to soften it, but read that Bolivian Rams (Mikrogeophagus altispinosus) do well in a wider range of water.

Thanks for any insights you can give!

 

[ryansmith83]

M. altispinosus and M. ramirezi (tank-bred) do well in a wide range of water parameters. If you get good stock from a reliable source, they are highly adaptable. I know a lot of discus people that keep and breed M. ramirezi in harder water with a pH similar to yours. The thing to keep in mind with M. ramirezi is that they like slightly warmer water which not all plants and tetras play nice with. Bolivians can be kept a bit cooler. They also grow a bit larger.

What is the footprint on the 29? Others will disagree with me, but ideally you don't want more than 2 pair in a tank that size. Even then you may have issues with territorial disputes, but that's up to your actual fish. So I'd say four rams, max, of either species. You should have no problem with a school of tetras, just make sure that if you go with the M. ramirezi that you find tetras that appreciate the warmer water.

In regards to the cory cat question -- they should be fine together (again, watch the temperature requirements of the various species) but remember that rams are called "Mikrogeophagus" for a reason. They do peck and eat quite a bit from the bottom. Just make sure you feed adequately so the cories and rams are both getting enough to eat.

As beautiful as M. ramirezi are, I have such a soft spot for Bolivians. They have beautiful pastel colors, the males end up with cool lyretails, and all-around they just seem more personable to me. You can't go wrong either way, though.

 

[Mythic Figment]

Getting ready to start stocking a 29 gallon tank, and really would like some Bolivian Rams or Blue Rams in it, but also some other fish...

So... In order of... no order...

-Will Rams get along fine with the small tetras? (neons, black neons, penguin, and glo-lights)

-What would the stocking limit be in this size tank? I'm hoping for 3-4 rams, and maybe 5 each of the tetras I like (so around 20-ish tetras total). Or is the tank to small for rams in general?

-Do the get along with Cory cats?

-What other community fish in general would be fine in the tank, especially oddballs...

This is in my sons room, planted (not heavily at the moment), Aqueon dual T5 fixture with 6.7k and 5k bulbs, and AquaClear HoB, at the moment running sponge, purigen, and matrix. No C02, if that makes any difference in anything. Looking for color and movement. He'd love a small crab in there, but I don't know enough about them, how well they get along with plants and the fish I want... I want the rams, he wants the tetras, if they don't work, I'll have to figure out a compromise somewhere.

Oh, and my tapwater is quite hard, with a pH of around 7.6
I'm assuming I'll have to soften it, but read that Bolivian Rams (Mikrogeophagus altispinosus) do well in a wider range of water.

Thanks for any insights you can give!

You can house 4 rams in that tank. Be careful though as you might end up with a breeding pair who will take over about 3/4 gallons of the floor space. If you can accurately sex them, get 4 males and you should be fine. Or better yet, get 2 of each ram (Bolivian and German) and the risks of getting breeders will decrease (still try to get males).

Rams and small tetras are fine. Been done for years without issue. In rare cases, a full grown adult may make a go at a tetra to eat (not aggression), but it would have to be pretty big and the tetra would have to be really small for it to be interested. My neons bred in my 125 with 5 monstrous German blue rams and none of them even tried to get the fry. My sevs did though. LOL

20 small tetras is pushing the bioload if you want Cory cats as well. The rams are (as their name states) little micro geos, so they will sift the bottom for food. If you skip the cories, you could house up to 20 small tetras (personally I would skip the glo-lights, but I am against dying/tattooing fish into abnormal colors).

The issue with cories is that they are bottom dwellers like the rams and they require shoals of 5 or more to be comfortable. If you want cories, you will have to knock your ram numbers down to 2, maybe 3.

My personal recommendation is to skip the cories and go with 4 rams with a sand bottom and your 20 tetras. Your bioload will be full at that point, but your filtration sounds pretty good. So I doubt there are going to be any oddballs that would fit in with your stock in that tank size.

I can't comment on the crab. I know nothing about freshwater crabs.

As far as your water goes, you can try to soften it, but stability in your water parameters is far more important. Most rams will adapt to just about any water conditions. Your pH is only 0.2 higher than mine and my German blues (a notoriously sensitive fish) did just fine. Unless you have liquid rock type hardness, I would leave it alone. If you do have liquid rock, get another tank to age water in and use peat to soften it. Or you could invest in a super expensive RO/DI unit. Both the rams and tetras like soft water, but its mostly for breeding. Sperm has difficulty penetrating eggs in harder waters (my medium hardness water didn't stop my rams from breeding).


Sent from my iPad using MonsterAquariaNetwork app

 

[Mythic Figment]

LOL Ryan beat me to it.


Sent from my iPad using MonsterAquariaNetwork app

 

[Dark Rose]

Well, as for the hardenss, I'm running 170 GH and 300+ KH, so I've been told that's close to liquid rock. With all the limestone in Indiana, I've been told our tapwater is perfect for cichlids with no alteration, softer water fish need some adjustment...

The glo-light tetras are actually glowlight or fire neon tetras (Hemigrammus erythrozonus), and I don't think they're modified like the Glo brand or flourescent dyed fish, but could be wrong. If they're dyed, I'm not really interested.

The 29 is a 29 tall I think it's called, 30Widex12x18Tall.

I can take or leave the cories... and 4 rams sounds fine to me... The local Petco occasionally gets blues, but they look hit or miss on health. I've got another better LFS about 45 mins away, and they usually have blues, golds, Bolivians, and electric blues... Though I have no clue how to sex them, should I look for pointed vs. rounded fins?

Sounds like I actually have a solid plan this time, lol.

 

[darth pike]

Glowlights are natural, but wouldn't enjoy the higher temps that the blue rams require. Cardinals or green neons would be a better choice (I'd say rummynose as well, but I feel a 29 gallon is too small for them).

And keep in mind a ram pair might claim the entire tank bottom.

 

[Dark Rose]

Looks like I need to do some more tetra research then...
Bolivian rams tolerate a wider temp range well, correct?

Sent from my DROID4 using MonsterAquariaNetwork App

 

[Mythic Figment]

Well, as for the hardenss, I'm running 170 GH and 300+ KH, so I've been told that's close to liquid rock. With all the limestone in Indiana, I've been told our tapwater is perfect for cichlids with no alteration, softer water fish need some adjustment...

The glo-light tetras are actually glowlight or fire neon tetras (Hemigrammus erythrozonus), and I don't think they're modified like the Glo brand or flourescent dyed fish, but could be wrong. If they're dyed, I'm not really interested.

The 29 is a 29 tall I think it's called, 30Widex12x18Tall.

I can take or leave the cories... and 4 rams sounds fine to me... The local Petco occasionally gets blues, but they look hit or miss on health. I've got another better LFS about 45 mins away, and they usually have blues, golds, Bolivians, and electric blues... Though I have no clue how to sex them, should I look for pointed vs. rounded fins?

Sounds like I actually have a solid plan this time, lol.

Even with those water conditions, I would think your rams could adapt to that. Just make sure you acclimate them slowly when you get them home. It will be a 1.5-2 hour process if done correctly.

Glo-lights are definitely different than glowlights. The fire neons are cool.

I have read every piece of info on sexing Bolivian and German blue rams (or at least it feels like it). I bought 6 blues originally and had one female and 5 males. For the longest time I thought there was another female there after my only female died. They are so hard to accurately sex (at least for me). The fins aren't of much help to be honest. Look for the spikes in the front of the dorsal fins in males as they are longer than in females. Unfortunately, until they breed, there is no way to know for 100% certainty.


Sent from my iPad using MonsterAquariaNetwork app

 

[Mythic Figment]

Looks like I need to do some more tetra research then...
Bolivian rams tolerate a wider temp range well, correct?

Sent from my DROID4 using MonsterAquariaNetwork App

Not really. They accept lower temps better, but not higher than a German blue or electric blue can. Their max temp preference is listed at 78 degrees, but I have seen them kept with discus in the low to mid 80s and they have thrived. German blues and electric blues are more of a higher temp fish with a listed max at 82-84 (depending on your source). I wouldn't worry about temp too much unless you are keeping the tank constantly below 76 degrees or above 85 degrees. Anywhere in between that will house all rams comfortably. Germans and electrics are prone to ich at temps below 80, so if you choose to get them, I would focus in a tank temp of 81-83.

If you are going to keep a higher temp tank (80 or higher), cardinals are great. My neons are in 81 degree water and going strong. Rummy nose are fine too. They get 0.5" longer than neons (same as cardinals), so having a school of 10 rummy nose and 10 cardinals would be the most you could have in that tank with the rams. Just keep in mind that if you focus on getting tetras longer than 1.5", you will need to start decreasing the total number of tetras to compensate for increased bioload.

Personally, I agree with Ryan. There is something about Bolivian rams that makes me want them more than any other ram out there. All rams are beautiful, but Bolivians are my favorite. The only reason I got my Germans was because the LFS was out of Bolivians when I went to get them and my girlfriend wanted the Germans because they were "prettier". LOL


Sent from my iPad using MonsterAquariaNetwork app

 

[Dark Rose]

Ok, was just worried about the comment on glowlights not liking the higher temps... I've seen ranges from 60-80°F and 70-80°F for tetras... And seen rams from 76-82°F, Was planning to target around 77-78°F for that tank... Seems like that would hit a sweet spot for rams and tetras?