Botia and kuhli loach hacks

[MultipleTankSyndrome]

In planning for the setup of my 2nd loach tank, I thought up some hacks relating to both Botia loaches and kuhli loaches. Loaches Online says Botia loaches should not be mixed with kuhli loaches because they prefer much more flow in their tank*, but I thought of a way to set the tank up that seems as though it solves this problem.

That is, to set up powerheads at the very top of the water with the output straddling the water line. With this setup, you achieve:

-A nice balance of calm bottom space and flowing top space. Since kuhli loaches spend the vast majority of their time on or close to the bottom while Botia loaches often go higher, this arrangement fits the realm of each species well.
-More visible Botia loaches. When they go to play in the current, they'll be right at the top of the tank in full view.
-Extra-oxygenated water. Positioning the powerhead output to straddle the water line does more than just create enough calm areas for the kuhli loaches, it churns the water a lot and therefore oxygenates it a lot.

Hopefully this helps those who want to do this mix. I'll share this with Loaches Online too and report back with what they think.


*Clown loaches and dwarf chain loaches are likely to be exceptions. From what I have read (including on here), they are found in both running and calm water, so this hack may not be strictly necessary if you want to mix them with kuhli loaches - you could just go without a powerhead, which can be beneficial if cost is an issue for example.

 

[Midwater]

Dear M MultipleTankSyndrome , I do not go with too much information from that site. It is a bit third party / hearsay / assumptions.

Khulis are not bottom dweller. They are everywhere dwellers. The bigger the group - and you need lots - the more they merge together in a coordinated colony type of movement, and can instantly go from bottom water to surface, and stay there till they get bored. And they can stay in still water too.

I do not have khulis now, even though I like them, because they get everywhere:

• through the overflow
• all around the sump
• backwards through the return
• in an adjacent tank apparently through thin air

Good luck if you can combine them with other tropical loaches. You probably can.

 

[Midwater]

Three fish is the absolute minimum that should be kept together.

I would say three hundred.

I used to see bags of khulis for sale at JJ in Bangkok, a seething mass of loachiness in a plastic bag, and cheap too. I cannot believe how they can be sold individually.

That is sort of saying that ants should be kept in a group of no less than three.

 

[jjohnwm]

I would say three hundred.

I used to see bags of khulis for sale at JJ in Bangkok, a seething mass of loachiness in a plastic bag, and cheap too. I cannot believe how they can be sold individually.

That is sort of saying that ants should be kept in a group of no less than three.

This is quite interesting, along with the comment in your previous post about Kuhlis inhabiting all levels of the water column when living in natural huge schools of individuals.

I guess the behaviour most of us are accustomed to seeing from Kuhlis, i.e. secretive hiding and burrowing, is really the expression of their nervousness (maybe "absolute terror" would be more accurate...) at being kept alone or in very small numbers. The analogy to ants is perfect.

I like Kuhlis too, but like many other fish I like, I don't keep them because I don't want them to merely survive; I want them to be "happy", if you'll pardon the use of the standard MFK fish-emotion euphemism.

 

[MultipleTankSyndrome]

Dear M MultipleTankSyndrome , I do not go with too much information from that site. It is a bit third party / hearsay / assumptions.

Khulis are not bottom dweller. They are everywhere dwellers. The bigger the group - and you need lots - the more they merge together in a coordinated colony type of movement, and can instantly go from bottom water to surface, and stay there till they get bored. And they can stay in still water too.

I do not have khulis now, even though I like them, because they get everywhere:

• through the overflow
• all around the sump
• backwards through the return
• in an adjacent tank apparently through thin air

Good luck if you can combine them with other tropical loaches. You probably can.

Thanks to both you and jjohnwm for replying.

Concerning where the kuhlis dwell, while they do go everywhere sometimes with their dancing and such, I usually (as in 8 to 9 times of 10, with the other 1-2 being them getting everywhere) see mine on the bottom rooting about, exploring, foraging, or merely relaxing in a group. There is pretty much zero secretive/scared behaviour, they're always out in the open when they do this.
Perhaps I should have said that that was just what I had seen. Although, Martin Thoene makes some good points that behavior in loaches is variable and unpredictable:

shouldn't dojo loaches burrow - Loaches Online Forum

Kubotais attacking Angels - Page 2 - Loaches Online Forum

I think he is correct about this. My kuhlis certainly are not acting terrified given their tendency to stay out in the open, so I think it is reasonable to assume their bottom preference as opposed to everywhere preference as normal behavioural variation, for whatever reason.

Agreed on 3 not being enough. 300 is (very unfortunately) unrealistic for the majority, but I would not want them in groups of any less than 5 or 6, with more of course being preferable.
The ant analogy is a good one too, they should only be sold singly if you already have several. All too many threads abound on fish keeping websites with the central subject of one having (often 1-3) kuhli loaches and never seeing them, which is unfortunate.

Concerning Loaches Online, although my experience so far tells me that the good outweighs the bad when it comes to their advice. there is definitely a bit of incorrect information (just as with everywhere, of course) that must be watched out for. Such as the topic of this thread on Botia and kuhlis.

 

[MultipleTankSyndrome]

Agreed on 3 not being enough. 300 is (very unfortunately) unrealistic for the majority, but I would not want them in groups of any less than 5 or 6, with more of course being preferable.
The ant analogy is a good one too, they should only be sold singly if you already have several. All too many threads abound on fish keeping websites with the central subject of one having (often 1-3) kuhli loaches and never seeing them, which is unfortunate.

This thread prompted me to check out AqAdvisor with corrected sizes of the stock in my black kuhli loach tank (primarily had to do with correcting the clown loach size to 20-30 cm instead of just 30 cm).
With size corrected, it looks like I can add 12 more black kuhlis without overstocking. Even though I already have a sufficient amount, following the rule of more being better that I mentioned, I'll definitely get the 12 more. If they make for a group of kuhlis which enjoy being everywhere, I'll report back here.